Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Any discussion on shaping, designing, repairing and riding surfcraft of any type or shape. Also a good place to ask the 'what board should I buy?' question.

Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Goat » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:03 pm

All very encouraging, sounds like something eggy/nuggetty/belly of pork is the way to go.

That mccoy pot belly nugget at down the line looks gorgeous!! £600...but then i guess a custom would be around £500.

Dont want to go below 6'6" (not too worried about duckdiving) really, as still want some glide and early wave catching, not too far off what my 7'2" carpet offers.

Will a fairly rounded 2+1 egg or nugget of 6'6" still have a wave entry and glide significantly greater than my 6'1" fish? The rocker is generally v flat on eggs, right?
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Archy_is_God » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:02 pm

A 6'2" Potbelly Nugget will foat you like a 7'2" thruster if that's your main concern!

But, yeah-they're pricey.

A guy was seling a Nugget on ebay the other day, dunno if it went :?:
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Bearded Gimp » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:34 pm

There were two, the splinter that the other guy was looking at for £450 - not sure if it went - and a 6'8 nugget in excellent nick that went for an eye-watering £340 which shows they keep their value.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Goat » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:12 pm

It's a lot of money, but im not going to write it off, it's a really really nice looking board,and i guess you get what you pay for. Plus i plan on selling the fish, which will help fund it.

Ok so it floats well - the one im looking at is 6'6" x 21"x 2 7/8 thick. But in terms of rocker, planing speed etc, would this lead to significantly faster paddling/wave entry than the fish? which is almost as wide and not that much thinner.


(im aware i should speak to the guy on downtheline.com in person, just seeking out whatever views i can really).
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Bearded Gimp » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:31 pm

I don't think you'll have too many problems with wave catching on a 6'6 potbelly, especially at 11st. I know someone who weighs a couple of stone more than you and rides 6'6 surftech and he catches waves ridiculously easily. I would suggest dropping Geoff an email through his website. He is helpful and as long as you're honest about your ability he'll tell you what you should be riding. Just don't mention wanting to buy a surftech and riding it as a twinnie or anything daft like that.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Jory » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:12 pm

In defence of eggs etc

i have a friend (vowlesy) really good surfer, absolutely rips on a longboard, great noserider on a heavy single fin, smooth styley & still noserides well on his current fave 9'1 mctavish fireball

he's had a lot of different non standard shortboard shapes, CI msf g2 (a la machado), a couple of gulfstream quads, a fatboy flyer style thruster, a gulfstream single fin egg. He's always been searching for something that he hasn't found with them. He's more than good enough on a small board to actually surf a quad fish but he never really liked them. We were talking about it the other day & came to the conclusion that the shape just suits some people better than others (i find that it suits my natural style for example, he doesn't)

Anyway, to get to the point............ He bought (as an impulse purchase) a 7'2 gulfstream carpet. It's got a similar template to the nineplus but is much much more foiled with quite a lot less foam & hard rails in the tail. He rides it as a 2
+1 with an 8 inch nineplus flexdrive fin & boy does he rip on it. Real smooth speed generating lateral lines, lovely full rail cutbacks, cheater 5' s. He can duckdive it too.He's sold all his other boards except the mctavish & rides the carpet in anything over waist high.

so goat that may well be worth a look. He's about 5'8 and prob 11.5 stoneish he gets into waves as early or earlier than me on my fish.

this is him with the board:
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or have a look at the magic carpet section of the gulfstream.co.uk website
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby slipslide » Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:25 pm

Cheers for the reply archy i will drop the man himself an e-mail, Did you buy yours through down the line or direct from geoff?

Goat. It might be worth asking gulf stream if they do demo boards. If not I think surfed out do (or used to) i would go and try a few different ones if you are down that way. Granted rubbish if you live in scotland.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby ears » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:00 pm

apologies if this posts twice but my computer's gone weird... hey goat i think you should go egg shaped!! I have to say my experience on one has been nothing but positive... I only stopped riding my 7'2 because i got a hull of a similar length and take that out when the waves allow. My board (and no, this isn't a cunning sales pitch) is a fluid juice single fin based on a dewey weber feather fastback (have a look on their site) and it flies.. had a lot of fun on it here and in france in the summer. Like the board jory describes above its pretty foiled with a hard edge in the tail, ride it with a 9" flex fin and it really generates a lot of speed in and out of turns.. Anyway, you are more than welcome to take it out (its in south devon at the moment) I think adrian offers a tri fin version of it now as a stock model, think its the magic feather?? Anyway, if you fancy taking it out pm me and we can hook up one weekend.. (north or south devon) and you can give it a good blast. Ears :)
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Chai Wallah » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:16 pm

Just to throw another board into the mix - a couple of boys in Barbados were ripping on Bear Wombats, getting them vertical and busting fins, again about 6'8" in size - these are supposed to be scaled down long boards and they really rated them - again it might serve what you want if you want something that you can surf vertically but not lose all the glide and paddling ability of a larger board.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby royal » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:42 pm

one thing to bear in mind, and I think Archy was touching on this, that any board can be tweeked to ride a certain way....

flatter rocker, bellied out bottom or concaves, 50/50 rails or down? theres more to talk about than just style of board here...

for what you're talking about, i'd go with a relatively flat rockered, 2 3/4" flat decked, thin railed, style of egg....kind of sounds like a hull... :shock: !
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Jory » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:23 am

the board im talking about has a flat rocker, hard rails in the tail and concaves in the bottom, pretty forward rather than retro looking which would make it less sluggish than the nineplus original magic carpet.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Goat » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:45 am

Thanks all of you for the pointers, i'll bear then in mind.

Looks promising Jory. Interesting that he had to get through so many boards before he clicked with one!

Ears - thanks for the offer mate.

Mccoy nugget or pot belly looking promising also.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby slipslide » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:09 pm

Spoke to down the line and i was told that the next shipment of mccoys are going up, about a £100ish i think. So you may want to get in quick or think about other options.
For the 8ft that i have been thinking about £750-800, lots of cash. Also puts a lot of other "legend status" boards within the same price range or a couple of very good UK boards, alright Mc Coys are different to these options but you have to seriously consider it especially when there a bit of an unknown in the UK. Well they are to me anyway.

All that said still really want one, time to find someone coming back from oz i think. Does anyone know what kind of money they are in oz?
This is also in the nugget thread. Sorry for duplicating but thought it might be helpful.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Archy_is_God » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:53 pm

Goat-You also have to think about where you're surfing most.

Am I right in thinking Rest Bay is a place you head to frequently?

Only surfed it a couple of times, but it seems fairly quick and dumpy at lower tides and a little softer when it gets higher. Good shortboard waves for the most part, but I guess I have limited experience there to really know.

If this is the case, then I would get something that responds quickly rail-to-rail and holds in well, whatever type of board you decide to choose.

Jory's suggestion of a more foiled-out egg could be interesting, but any board with the elements we've talked about may fit the bill.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Goat » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:46 am

Yeah Archy, predominantly Rest Bay.

Love it, it's such a diverse break. You should pay it another visit! It's often tiny at low tide, before doubling in size by high tide. There are loads of peaks and it seems to vary considerably from gentle and mellow (but with a fair bit of power), to quite hefty walls sometimes. Somtimes the paddle out is an absolute nightmare, other times when the period is good, it's a total breeze.

http://www.beachwizard.com/beach.asp?co ... eachid=480

There's also coney beach which is a slow flat wave, perfect for longboardfing, do able on the carpet but just frustrating on the fish. and porthcawl point round the corner, which (if you look at the video on the porthcawl report page) can be classic on its day. not tried it yet though.

Speaking of boards, very nearly about to take the plunge on a 6'6" nugget. have done loads of reading up, speaking to Geoff and downtheline, sounds ideal.

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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby The Hoff » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:14 am

Goat wrote:an oversized one of say, 6’6” or 6’8”, which would still offer loads of manoeuvrability

If you're aspiring to learn to surf like the guys in that video, which is basically a few of the world's top pros from the last two decades making difficult surfing look deceptively easy, then don't go near a 6'6". I don't think that a board of that length is going to turn in the way you want it to in the waves you're surfing, no matter what outline or thickness it has. Stick with your 6'1" and practice more or get a better, shorter and thicker one that you can paddle easier. Shorter is definitely better in my experience—most people could probably chop a foot off their current board and surf as good or usually better than before.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Vince Noir » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:57 pm

The Hoff wrote:
Goat wrote:an oversized one of say, 6’6” or 6’8”, which would still offer loads of manoeuvrability

If you're aspiring to learn to surf like the guys in that video, which is basically a few of the world's top pros from the last two decades making difficult surfing look deceptively easy, then don't go near a 6'6". I don't think that a board of that length is going to turn in the way you want it to in the waves you're surfing, no matter what outline or thickness it has. Stick with your 6'1" and practice more or get a better, shorter and thicker one that you can paddle easier. Shorter is definitely better in my experience—most people could probably chop a foot off their current board and surf as good or usually better than before.


So on the same thinking a 6'6 would be about as big as i would ever need to go if i want a shortboard for when it starts creeping up to d/oh and anything under head high i could get way with a 6'4 or smaller ( despite the fact that im 200lbs and 6ft 3 )
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Barneyrubble » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:27 pm

The Hoff wrote:
Goat wrote:an oversized one of say, 6’6” or 6’8”, which would still offer loads of manoeuvrability

If you're aspiring to learn to surf like the guys in that video, which is basically a few of the world's top pros from the last two decades making difficult surfing look deceptively easy, then don't go near a 6'6". I don't think that a board of that length is going to turn in the way you want it to in the waves you're surfing, no matter what outline or thickness it has. Stick with your 6'1" and practice more or get a better, shorter and thicker one that you can paddle easier. Shorter is definitely better in my experience—most people could probably chop a foot off their current board and surf as good or usually better than before.


Probably true if you get out a lot but if you are out once a week at most then going really short can be bloody hellish and frustrating. Suppose you got to be honest with yourself...but nowt wrong with pushing yourself but when it becomes too much you just get pissed off.
Last edited by Barneyrubble on Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby The Hoff » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:08 pm

Vince Noir wrote:
The Hoff wrote:
Goat wrote:an oversized one of say, 6’6” or 6’8”, which would still offer loads of manoeuvrability

If you're aspiring to learn to surf like the guys in that video, which is basically a few of the world's top pros from the last two decades making difficult surfing look deceptively easy, then don't go near a 6'6". I don't think that a board of that length is going to turn in the way you want it to in the waves you're surfing, no matter what outline or thickness it has. Stick with your 6'1" and practice more or get a better, shorter and thicker one that you can paddle easier. Shorter is definitely better in my experience—most people could probably chop a foot off their current board and surf as good or usually better than before.


So on the same thinking a 6'6 would be about as big as i would ever need to go if i want a shortboard for when it starts creeping up to d/oh and anything under head high i could get way with a 6'4 or smaller ( despite the fact that im 200lbs and 6ft 3 )

You could probably go smaller still, as long as there's enough volume.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby hentex » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:39 pm

I think your getting fustrated on ur quad... and need to ignore all boards apart from the quad!

i stuck with it solidly and im still abit naff, but it needs alot of time, the local dude from peniche said it took 4 months to get used to his! But he wont ride anything else in are awful waves, and he is used to surfing high performance low volume pins.

The best advice i got with the quad was 'keep at it' It's definately technique if your struggling to catch waves. I got exactly same board as you just 6'4 and it can catch most 1foot crap burgers and glide enough to get up and move it to get more drive. Worst thing im struggling with is ducking it deep enough in bigger waves, but its not the right board for that which is the main problem (boat) :)

I got a log aswell now, moving back and forth between the 2 DOES NOT help! Longboard might be abit slow n shizz, but it's nice to chill out in small waves sometimes huh :)
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby royal » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:41 am

The Hoff wrote: a 6'6". I don't think that a board of that length is going to turn in the way you want it to i


I hope that's what my post tried to convey... you can't make a 10' turn like a 5'6"...ever.....!

Long-er fish are all about amplifying the glide and flow already in the platform. Trying to make it do the same in longer templates doesn't happen.

It all has to do with converging curves - or lack thereof....mystic nonsense :roll:

Keep the shorter one and get an egg..
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby mal-nourished » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:34 am

hentex has hit the nail on the head there.... 8) sat down recently with someone who is a top shaper and a elite surf coach and we analysed a video of kelly and dane reynolds at jeffreys both on quads and he showed me how in this footage slater was more dialed into the way to ride the board than dane it was very interesting . 8) found the same problem when switching to twinnies and also thrusters initially when they arrived on the scene having rode singles... sometimes just a subtle change in the way your surfing will suffice .try find the footage vince and you will see what he means its on you tube somewhere....
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Vince Noir » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:59 pm

hentex wrote:I think your getting fustrated on ur quad... and need to ignore all boards apart from the quad!


The best advice i got with the quad was 'keep at it' It's definately technique if your struggling to catch waves. I got exactly same board as you just 6'4 and it can catch most 1foot crap burgers and glide enough to get up and move it to get more drive. Worst thing im struggling with is ducking it deep enough in bigger waves, but its not the right board for that which is the main problem (boat) :)

)




exactly what im thinking.....stick with the quad goat...once you get your paddling strength up and get used to it you will want to ride nothing else. the quad i have is immense for sloppy slack waves...loads and loads of speed...tonnes of volume for getting into waves when you shouldn't, zooms across the flats or when the wave goes fat/backs off..love em :-)

hentex i have the same problem...its the only board i have at the moment, and i cant duck dive it properly...took it out down little fistral when there was a decent offshore swell a few weeks back and got my ass handed to me everytime i tried to duckdive a clean up set :lol:
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Goat » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:06 pm

Thanks all.

Yeah may keep it, not sure as got my Mccoy Nugget delivered yesterday. Took it for first surf today in average conditions and already im in love with it, and thats when im not even in tune with it yet!

Also to bear in mind is that early wave entry is one of the things i love from a board. That rushing planing feeling and getting more time on the wave, more glide. Yes the fish does get onto waves a lot earlier than a a toothpick shortboard, but no where near as early as the nugget or carpet. And I told myself if i was to spend £600 on a nugget id sell the fish to help fund it!

Guess it also depends on how often you go. I go once a week..twice occasionally if im lucky. Dont know if ive got the water time to elevate it beyond the frustrating stage when i could be having a richer, more rewarding overall experience on the nugget.

Vince, going to porthcawl soon? Would be good to go for a surf.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Vince Noir » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:02 pm

goat ...im heading up to langland tomorrow. theres a possibility of us going to rest as well...wind should drop a litle in the arvo


will pm you my number
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby lorcar » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:43 pm

bumping up this old thread, asking you a question about volume and flotation.
I wonder which is the right level of flotation needed. You could easily say it depends of your boardshape, your ride-style, and wave type. Agreed. But there should be a level where you feel the board is too much on top of the water, and burying the rail becomes hard. I always wondered how it surfing the Mccoy Nugget: as far as I understood, it's plenty of volume, a lot, and has long rails. So how do you turn this? just like a longboard, pivoting on the tail/fins? can you really dig the rail in a high volume board? those fish on the Rasta's vid do not look over-sized
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby Cuttlefish » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:17 am

Have a gander at my post today (page 25) re the McCoy lazor zap and it will partially answer your question.
Re the fish Rasta surfed in the "Freeway" the timber fish is a Chris Garrett board which is huge compared to the subsequent boards he was riding (esp carbon fibre/eps ones) made from Dick Van Straalen and currently by Gary McNeill of Formula energy surfboards.
He quickly went off the traditional templates and onto rocket style fish which were also a lot thinner.
Have a look at the "David Rastovich with AC Lawrence interview" on My Space for a good look at the Dick Van carbon/eps shapes he used to ride.
I had one of his early flex keel, hydro hull, concave deck ones that Dick made him just like in the vid.
Check out "formula energy surfboards" for You tube videos of Rasta going through the boards he's riding now. Those suckers are thin.
By the way...Goat you should have had Royal shape you a mini-simmons.
Turn and burn baby.
After I caught my very first wave on my DMS 5'6" (Dan McDonald shapes) min-simmons I knew the new DVS (Dick Van Straalen) stringerless 6' volan glassed twin keel fish in a traditional template was never to be ridden again.
The mini-simmons has the glide, manouvreability and responsiveness that the DVS could only dream off.
It's gone now-swapped for a McCoy lazor zap just because I knew someone who wanted the DVS and had a board to swap.
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby zboy » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:17 am

was talking to richie pavel will he was over here in ireland, he was shaping a big fish but he said ideal situation height of person to height of board roughly but as with everything there is no law and if there is break it :-D for me depends on the size of the wave and what kind of wave as to the fish i surfed point reef i surfed my 6 ft quad i found the extra rail and extra length bit more grip and stable ness in the bigger waves wrapping around the point,as to my 5,10 twin fin
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby rodent » Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:13 pm

Nothing beatsthat big fat fish feeling on nice solid days :-D

Image

Image

6'4, plenty wide and thick
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Re: Are larger size Fish a bit pointless?

Postby skimmer2 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:45 pm

I raise you 2 inches to 6ft 6.

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