longboard- allrounder or noserider

[flacky]

dora lives.

[royal]

[Chai Wallah]

Da Influence

[ncsurfer]

Hi if you're still looking Zuma Jay have got a 9'6 black and white performance noserider to demo.

[royal]

chai...

da next one...




9'6"x22"something...

[Chai Wallah]

^^^^

Da Royal Reptile

Looking good Rob - still not got yours in anything decent yet - but its going on a trip to the canaries in 2 weeks so hopefully will get it working

[mister-griffster]

beauty of a template on da cat there Rob - hope you're piggin em up stateside!

where you heading Chai- may be looking for some loggable wave in the Canaries this winter - not looking for pits of doom, just nice long rolling walls

[Chai Wallah]

Off to Lanzagrote on Thursday - forecast 7 foot at 17 seconds, will be looking for some shelter me thinks

[mister-griffster]

LOL - bit like the rest of the UK today then!! Those lucky devils down at Croyde could've sold their houses - plenty of shelter in those caverns!

Let us know how it goes when you return to our, no doubt colder shores... was looking at Famara myself, but the pull of Fuerte is strong - have a great one Chai

[skimmer2]

Just had my new piggy surfboard out today......the big difference I noticed from the performance noserider longboard that I have used last couple of years is that the piggy turns quicker and I never bogged any rails.....cool!! Feels looser on the wave too. Everyone should have one

[kayu]

...the mark of a good pig !.....everything under your feet..

[Roy Stuart]

All rounder, wide point forward = more rail.

http://olosurfer-woodensurfboardsatpipeline.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/luxury-surfboards-great-pretender-at.html

[flacky]

Lovely. But pointless for 90% of people wanting to get a longboard who want to ride the nose. Regardless of your opinion of it.

[Roy Stuart]

Whatever, I wasn't suggesting mass production.

As you know I'm greatly in favour of nose riding for the 99.99999%

[Roy Stuart]

As Jory points out somewhere earlier in this thread, a board with a wide nose and narrow tail is prone to side slipping/spinning out when the wave pitches

Only if one makes the error of placing all the rider weight at the bow.

Ridden correctly i.e. in any remotely instinctive way they'll hang in better than any other shape.

[mister-griffster]

royal wrote:

As Jory points out somewhere earlier in this thread, a board with a wide nose and narrow tail is prone to side slipping/spinning out when the wave pitches

Only if one makes the error of placing all the rider weight at the bow.

Ridden correctly i.e. in any remotely instinctive way they'll hang in better than any other shape.

Relevance?? I don't see how this board fits this thread? Maybe because it's an 'all-rounder'? Also, i belive Royal may have been referring to the act of nose-riding in this instance - you can't nose-ride if you're not on the 'bow' captain....

[mister-griffster]

As this thread has gone quiet for a while, just like to make it circular...

Picked myself up a Jai Lee Noserider today and would have to echo Jory's sentiments. It's a 'proper' weight log for sure - not the heaviest but certainly decent enough. But it feels surprisingly 'light' when in the water. I found it has a kind of neutral buoyancy, sitting quite low in the water, and while not the best paddler certainly has no trouble catching waves. I was quite excited by the tail shape on it, not ridden something like that on a longboard before, scalloped with a hard edge moving through to 50/50 mid and a nicely thinned and upturned rail in the snout. Nicely foiled rails throughout.

I'm still trying to get the board dialled, but it has a great entry into waves, turns sweetly, and when you drive off the tail you can kinda feel it flex ever so slightly, moving to the middle turns on a great burst of acceleration and if the wave steepens it's a blast - certainly likes steeper wave. I can't say I've had a truly successful full on nose ride, but when i have got forward it's very stable and feels very secure, carry speed with it.

A lot of people call this a semi-pig - to my mind the only thing it has in common (this is the first model, not the latest Jai division model) is that the wide point is pulled back. After that I can't really see too much resemblence. 18" nose and 15.5 tail, light concave, little or no roll and falt through the tail for speed. It's a wide-hipped log, but very smooth template and gives a good long parallel rail up to the nose.

All in all this seems like a fun board, turns well, can crank it through the gears and feels lively but also secure and great stability upfront. Think I'll enjoy playing around on this log for a while.

[skimmer2]

^^^^glad someone's getting some surf...been nothing doing up on the east coast for a while

[AB3]

There's a few clips of my noserider the summat in this vid
http://youtu.be/51LtcFMjkNU
Wide nose 20" , 24" wide
Andys currently ranked 2nd in Ireland

[pitmonkey]

wax the rear end of the board for grip, and rub good quality soap (palmolive is the best I found) on the front half and you'll slip right up to the nose in a second. Make sure you put some wax on the very tip of the nose so you stop in just the right place.

[mister-griffster]

Just stumble across this - and well, not sure where else to post it really... I've seen responses and rebutals on fin shapes for pigs (especially the Dee) and in general a lot of confusion of what does and doesn't work...

It seems to me those Aussies knew what they were doing back in the '60's and possibly much more invention in those longboard shapes than the Americans were producing at the time - a late sixties McDonagh shaped pig with a Greenough Stage 1 glass on - looks lovely and foiled too - skip on over to this link http://davidplattsurfboardrestorations.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/mcdonagh-pig.html for more info - looks pretty much spot on for a modern pig - can't believe it's nearly 50 years old!





Begs the question - what direction would surfing had taken had Greenough NOT hooked up with the Aussies?

[mister-griffster]

Apologies as I'm cross-populating threads with this quote - but I think it amply sums up why a modern pig / son of sam style board is a perfect all-rounder for modern surfing;

- a bit of plagarism from the vlog blog (get over there and check it out) http://vicloggin.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/magic-sam-v-son-of-sam.html

A fundamental influence on this design was the shift of the board's main area (or volume) to further back on the board. This was essentially what had come out of the Velzy/Jacob Pig Board 'chance' designs of a decade earlier.
It allowed for more 'drive' from the back of the board, and less focus on the trimming and noseriding control. This 'drive' was a fundamental change in surfing control.

This particular board was affectionately named ‘Sam’ by Nat Young, and he secretly felt that it had 'magical' powers of it's own. It had a rounded flat nose and a square tail. The deck was flat and the bottom rounded to allow for 'roll' in turning. The ‘thin’ rails were shaped to a 50/50 sizing – allowing maximum ‘cutting’ edges. Although harder to paddle, the idea was that the board’s thinner rails would allow the board to cut into the wave when turning. Combined with the 'pig' style volume placement - this would allow sharper turning, or ‘carving’, without the drag of the more traditional thicker Malibu boards. - and also drive out of the turns (bottoms).

Basically, this style of board loves speed, turns freely and if positioned in the pocket of the wave will still allow some tip time - that is in direct contrast to a noserider which is purposely designed to slow down and stall into the pocket of the wave, with concave not only producing lift but also providing resistance and pushing the board 'back' into the curl, along with the big ol fins they use providing ample drag to keep you secured there. Personally, I like to ride boards of both styles when the conditions allow. The difference can be keenly felt however when surfing beachbreaks that are bit crumbly - the modern piggie will speed and glide around sections, connecting the face of the wave and being very easy to change direction on a close out - the noserider tends towards getting caught in the soup, never quite managing to connect the section and getting bogged, plus last minute changes of direction are a wee bit futile.

On a clean lined up point, the first type is all nice flowing cutbacks to get back to the pocket, some quick tip time, accelerate and repeat - the noserider is stick it in the pocket, get in the top third of the wave and camp out on the nose having to do little else.

Both boards do what they are meant to beautifully in the right conditions. But if i was going to surf less than perfect conditions I'd be going for the modern pig as an all-rounder - there's just more you can do with it than a noserider which as the name generally implies, is a one trick pony - but what a trick!

[kayu]

MacDonagh made some classy surfboards back then.......not many are still around , because he never hit the production button as much as other Brookvale boardmakers.......kept to himself ,although was highly respected by all....he also made many lightweight boards with eps blanks and epoxy.........also an accomplished jazz musician.......

[mister-griffster]

Ooh, tel me more Kayu - gotta be honest I haven't heard the name (or can't recall it) until recently. That pig above could been made yesterday - looks so fresh!

[kayu]

http://www.soulsurf.com.au/Surfboards/O ... ...there's a sweet Macdonagh 7ft hull if you scroll down to find it.........Greg lives down the south end of the Gold Coast...last I heard , he was experimenting with some out there finless craft......also active on the local music scene....that was a few years back ,and I heard he had a few health issues ,so I hope he is still in good health...I will enquire....his boards are very sougt after here

[kayu]

MacDonagh double ender- 7' 6"

[Roy Stuart]

royal wrote:

As Jory points out somewhere earlier in this thread, a board with a wide nose and narrow tail is prone to side slipping/spinning out when the wave pitches

Only if one makes the error of placing all the rider weight at the bow.

Ridden correctly i.e. in any remotely instinctive way they'll hang in better than any other shape.

Relevance?? I don't see how this board fits this thread? Maybe because it's an 'all-rounder'?

Yes because it is an 'all rounder'.

None of the other boards shown here are all rounders in my opinion as they are all nose riding types... the same old modern in the box thinking handicapped by the nos eriding requirement.

The Pig shape is even less of an all rounder than other nose riders due to the fact that the higher proportion of tail area makes them speed ( and thus wave size) sensitive i.e. their handling characteristics change drastically as speed increases.

[mister-griffster]

Hey Roy - glad to hear your still alive - man you must be tired of taking a kicking on all those other forums to come back to this one after sooo long.

None of the other boards on this thread are an all-rounder? hmmm not so sure of that...

The Pig shape is even less of an all rounder than other nose riders due to the fact that the higher proportion of tail area makes them speed ( and thus wave size) sensitive i.e. their handling characteristics change drastically as speed increases.

Not going to argue that a pig is size / speed sensitive Roy but I've had mine out in head-high stuff with no issues. Sure If you started riding bigger then there will be issues - but I guess then most people wont be taking out a longboard anyway.

I guess we have to determine what an 'all-rounder' is - I figure when talking longboard terminology (not guns that are long but the type that most people ride when the waves are small) then it's a board that utilises it's shape to perform majority of things well - not necessarily a dedicated piece of equipment like a 'performance longboard' or noserider (that doesn't excel at much else other than setting the board up for a noseride). So I guess we're looking at a board that pretty much performs in a 7-8 out of 10 fashion in all areas, paddling, wave catching, turning, trimming, accelerating, noseriding. I would say some of the pigs on here fall into that category quite comfortably.

[Chai Wallah]

Thought this link pretty succinctly showed the differences between pigs and standard nose riders

http://diversesurf.com.au/logging-pig-vs-noserider/

[flacky]

Got my Chip out at the weekend finally... OH BOY it's a challenge... I read somewhere that AB3's mate Zeph slated the old Chip designs, said they were pigs with the rolled bottom and vee tail and pleaded with anyone to flatten the hull... Well, strong opinion, not one I'm going to share. Yes, massively challenging, first turn is either succeed or fail, strangely dialled it in going backhand which I generally struggle with on anything hully.

I did try to noseride it a few times.. Old habits, it felt locked in, and instinct took me there, no chance. I can live without though. It's just an all out slider!

This board is a dream. An absolute dream. Had it out in waist to nipple high glass and was bouncing round. Love.