Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Roy Stuart » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:26 pm

I like pigs but just thought that it should be remembered that they are useful only within a small range of speeds at the lower end of the scale, due to the leverage from the wide tail which goes up by the square as speed increases, negatively affecting handling and control... sort of like mobility scooters and golf carts.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby skimmer2 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:28 pm

Roy Stuart wrote:I like pigs but just thought that it should be remembered that they are useful only within a small range of speeds at the lower end of the scale, due to the leverage from the wide tail which goes up by the square as speed increases, negatively affecting handling and control... sort of like mobility scooters and golf carts.


they are lively right enough.......mine was made for waist high and below but used it in chest/shoulder high waves and it was superb....maybe not having very defined hips helps?
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Roy Stuart » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:43 pm

Yes it's a matter of degree, and after all most modern short boards are pig shapes and they work over a reasonable wide range of speeds.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby mister-griffster » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:54 pm

Not gonna disagree there Roy - great boards for small waves
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby royal » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:04 am

Literally just shared some head to just OH waves at Pleasure point on a new friend's 60s era Surfboards San Francisco "pig". 9'6"x20 1/2"x something.

Flat, flat flat, rolled bottom, cutaway d -fin, and FAST! No problem on the bigger and way steeper bombs. Narrow nose never even came close to pearling, and rail buried bottom turns (backhand) were super fun! Damn, I need to make me a new one now...

It's sometimes the sum of it's parts that makes a board good...
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Barneyrubble » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:49 am

royal wrote:Literally just shared some head to just OH waves at Pleasure point on a new friend's 60s era Surfboards San Francisco "pig". 9'6"x20 1/2"x something.

Flat, flat flat, rolled bottom, cutaway d -fin, and FAST! No problem on the bigger and way steeper bombs. Narrow nose never even came close to pearling, and rail buried bottom turns (backhand) were super fun! Damn, I need to make me a new one now...

It's sometimes the sum of it's parts that makes a board good...


The Son of Sam/Magic Sam board was made for bigger stuff too...so I understand.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Werwulf1919 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:21 am

I find my Royal Pig a lot better on steeper/bigger stuff...it seems to bog a bit on normal small 'loggable' waves ?
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby mister-griffster » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:25 am

It's sometimes the sum of it's parts that makes a board good...


I find my pig a bit of a slow paddler as it sits low in the water and has that belly, but once you get it dialed I find that it's happy as a proverbial in small stuff - Once it gets overhead that's when things become a bit sketchy for me, the roll / hips seem to slow the board just that little bit and the roll makes the turns a little bit unpredictable....

But the board works well from 1ft to 6ft no mistake... sounds like you have another piggy evo in mind then rob?
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Barneyrubble » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:26 pm

mister-griffster wrote:
It's sometimes the sum of it's parts that makes a board good...


I find my pig a bit of a slow paddler as it sits low in the water and has that belly, but once you get it dialed I find that it's happy as a proverbial in small stuff - Once it gets overhead that's when things become a bit sketchy for me, the roll / hips seem to slow the board just that little bit and the roll makes the turns a little bit unpredictable....

But the board works well from 1ft to 6ft no mistake... sounds like you have another piggy evo in mind then rob?


Think mine is about the same Griff. It feels heavy to paddle and sometimes I don;t feel like I am moving too fast until I notice I've just overtaken a shortboarder at twice the speed :lol:

I've not had it out overhead as that's scary territory for me normally but on the chest high level I thought it went superb and reckoned it would go in higher quite easy.....but not really liking all that board on such big waves....it's a biggy!
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby mister-griffster » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:32 pm

've just overtaken a shortboarder at twice the speed


It's all about relativity :wink:

Check out Mike Blacks blog http://surfapig.blogspot.co.uk/ to see that ANY pig is quite comfortable upto head-high range
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Roy Stuart » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:52 pm

mister-griffster wrote:
Once it gets overhead that's when things become a bit sketchy for me, the roll / hips seem to slow the board just that little bit and the roll makes the turns a little bit unpredictable....




Werd.

Not a versatile design for longboards.. unbalanced, and unpredictable, and speed sensitive.

Pig shapes are for shortboards.



But the board works well from 1ft to 6ft



Size wise that could mean just about anything, including waves with 20 foot high faces.

.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Roy Stuart » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:54 pm

royal wrote:Literally just shared some head to just OH waves at Pleasure point on a new friend's 60s era Surfboards San Francisco "pig". 9'6"x20 1/2"x something.

Flat, flat flat, rolled bottom, cutaway d -fin, and FAST! No problem on the bigger and way steeper bombs. Narrow nose never even came close to pearling, and rail buried bottom turns (backhand) were super fun! Damn, I need to make me a new one now...

It's sometimes the sum of it's parts that makes a board good...


Give my regards to the Gnar.

Keeping the width down around 20" will help.


.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby mister-griffster » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:28 pm

Size wise that could mean just about anything, including waves with 20 foot high faces.


I don't live in Hawaii Roy, and don't have any macho bravado - 1-6ft for me means the size of the rideable face - ankle / knee / waist / chest / head - hope that's clear enough for you Dear
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby royal » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:04 pm

Roy Stuart wrote:Give my regards to the Gnar.

Keeping the width down around 20" will help.


.


well, I haven't met Mr Gnar just yet, this was actually a guy that knew me from swaylocks ages ago. He had picked up the board off of Craigslist for a song as the seller didn't know what they were talking about, and when he sanded the red gloss cover up off, it had a beautifully done splitting stringer, and original wooden fin(that had been covered in black resin panel originally.)

This isn't the only "pig" shape that is that narrow. I've got an Ekstrom that is 20 1/4", a template from a 60s Webber that is 20" and Haut has numerous original boards hanging in the rafters that date way back that are similar widths, and so on. Noseriding becoming the ultimate goal of longboarding ruined a lot of good design trends because they weren't that easy to perch on the nose. What a load of, ahem, horsehit!

I know you don't like the "traditional" approach to longboarding, that's just fine. I hate seeing guys noseriding on the shoulder, or pumping their longboards like a short board, neither doing a real or functional turn to save their lives. But, before it became all about the nose ride, some of the pig shapes were superbly functional boards. No crappy D fins, either. Riding this old board simply reminded me of that. The hips and rolled bottom work well in conjunction to create suction/drag in the tail to stop it spinning out on steep sections/drops and the lack of the big fat ass nose stops the flatter forward rocker pearling. Flat forward rocker gets the board up on plane(if you bother to step forward at all,) and tail rocker drags enough the tail to stop it slipping. When you inevitably outrun the wave, you have a nice hip and tail curve to turn on back into the pocket, and you're away again. This isn't rocket science...

No they aren't a point and shoot board. But, what's the fun in that after an hour or so anyway...?

Design has progressed for sure, but the direction it has gone in is way off in one direction(the wrong one from my standpoint)...
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Roy Stuart » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:15 pm

That makes a lot of sense. thanks for sharing.

By the way there's more than one 'traditional' approach to surfing, including pre noseriding longboard traditions, I'm not anti tradition per se.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby mister-griffster » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:29 pm

Just to refloat what others have posted... works pretty well all round, and a bunch of fun to boot!

http://youtu.be/uClgP_a1_Ew
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby royal » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:00 pm

best things in that video...

full rail cutback at 40seconds:

Image

and the obvious... :wink:

Image
Last edited by royal on Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Roy Stuart » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:07 pm

I'm a sucker for Nat's surfing for some reason, but I can't define why that clip looked so much better than other similar stuff I've seen of others with plenty of ability. The nose riding seemed to be utilised a bit differently to what we see these days i.e. he didn't do it when on the open face only when in or beneath the white water, and in that situation it seemed to make the board hold in better with a a sturdier line. When on the open face the board seemed to do just fine with the rider back from the nose ( at the beginning of the clip) still a lot of extra gyration though.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby seasofcheese » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:08 pm

Rob - we are in full agreement there.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby mal-nourished » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:17 pm

nats nat and thats that... :wink: aggressive surfing in longboarding looks and feels great when done in the right part of the wave ... :wink:
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby kayu » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:07 am

mal-nourished wrote:nats nat and thats that... :wink: aggressive surfing in longboarding looks and feels great when done in the right part of the wave ... :wink:

I think traditional pig style boards will always be around. If they're shaped correctly , they produce a style of surfing that no other design is capable of achieving.....been a go-to design for me since the late 60's.....it still amazes me to see old footage of original heavy pigs , ridden in clean suitable waves. The modern progressive boards just cant do that...... :shock:
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Roy Stuart » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:51 am

That Pig which Nat was riding would have been relatively light and short surely i.e. under 30 pounds and 9 feet long9(sh) ?

In other words they are really shortboards and won't work well in lengths 12 feet plus and over 40 pounds due to the fact that they are not a balanced design.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby kayu » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:34 am

Roy Stuart wrote:That Pig which Nat was riding would have been relatively light and short surely i.e. under 30 pounds and 9 feet long9(sh) ?

In other words they are really shortboards and won't work well in lengths 12 feet plus and over 40 pounds due to the fact that they are not a balanced design.

It was 9' 4" and possibly slightly over 30lb, which was relatively light thosedays...........not a shortboard though .......then again yours would be short to someone who rides 25 footers..
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby royal » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:49 am

roy,

Totally agree with you on how Nat was using the board, and his weight on the board. He wasn't really going for hanging ten, just trimming the board to gain speed, or engage more rail as you suggested. I've always liked this era of his surfing because it's not flashy, and while it is agressive, it is functional at the same time. Speaks heaps over some modern surfing that is more flicky, kicky, twitchy than substance.

That board was considered short at the time, and quite unique. Would've been pretty mind blowing at the time I imagine.

I've seen some longer pig shapes, but nothing "pretty" over 10'. They just don't look right, and the more pintailed, gunny shapes seem to work better in that range of board anyway. In my humble opinion anyway...

but hey ho, everyone, do what you like. Just don't drop in! It's only surfing after all. My arms are tired and face sunburnt after another long, waist to head high, sunny and clean day at the point... riding and sharing dysfunctional surfcraft and having a ball doing so... :wink:
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Roy Stuart » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:03 am

Cheers Rob, I might have a go at making one.
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby mal-nourished » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:28 am

in my opinion the period 65-75 was the best era for surfing as it was the transition period and with the crossover from logging to shortboarding...boards were both experimental and interesting not allways effective or practical mind i think some shapers took too many pyschedelics.... :wink:
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby seasofcheese » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:37 am

The Nat Young 'Sam' replica is the only board I make of that style, and I can't see me making anything else. I was sent the template by Paul Gross 4 years ago (Paul and George Greenough worked on the template in the mid 80s to get it right) and it's perfect...sometimes get the template out to ponder any adjustments, and realise its a done job - nothing to add or take away. The Stage 3 fin is an important addition, Greenough tuned the fin several times for Nat in '66 - I started to foil fins based on the need to make a decent stage 3 style fin and the that the off-the-shelf templates are a little tinner than I wanted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgisHsJZ0vw&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL0FA61269A5A2B5FD
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby Jory » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:19 pm

How good is drouyns bottom turn and Spencer's cutback in the trailer!?

Tim what are the bottom contours and the rails like on the SOS ? The template tempts me but I'm guessing there's more hull influence in the rails/bottom than conventional log?
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Re: Homage... reworked piggy goodness..

Postby mal-nourished » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:48 pm

the aussies brought the aggression the hawaiians added the style the californians added the commercial aspects theres the history of surfing in a nutshell... :roll: hows about adding a diagram SOC so us mere mortals can check out the planshape ive a fair idea as this was the type of board i started on a hand me down in 66 from my big sisters boyfriend...that was after a 2 year learning curve on coolites and mats plus bodywhomping..
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