Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

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Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:46 pm

Hey all

I got myself a Longboard (due to typical UK conditions) about 4 months ago and having so much fun on it. Just got used to the transition from shortboard and can happily cutback, trim, bottom/top turn, re entry and even some 5s. But after my last session, I don't think I have the right board for what I want...

I got a 9'2 x 23 x 3 and a 'progressive' shape, typical popsicle (narrow tail and wide nose). It seems okay but is jittery, slow in small stuff and can pearl...seems to act like my 7' thruster in waves up to 3ft. Which makes me think I would suit a heavy traditional single fin.

After reading some great threads on here from Rob Royal about pig style boards, it's got me thinking that it could be the way to go next. I also like the look of jai lee noserider. The concept of having the widepoint further back sounds ideal. What other boards have that design? And what's the difference between a pig and a jai lee?

I surf on Gower so surf a wide range of waves. Any advice or information would be great :)
Cheers
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby skimmer2 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:31 pm

Pigs are great longboards. I had a 9ft 2 performance noserider about the same dims as your longboard and I really liked that board...did most things pretty well. But....I went 9ft 6 and 23.5 wide and 3 thick on my pig and despite the size it is livelier and more fun and deffo catches the waves better. Paddles darn fast too. It is rolled on the bottom from tip to tail with only a very slight concave in the nose. I had it made for waist high and below but it goes great in bigger stuff. You can get them made smaller - Royal does mini pigs which I reckon will be a hoot.

Mine was made by Fluid Juice.
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:47 pm

Yeah, that's the thing. It just feels a bit flat and dull but it could be the shaper...but definitely want a lively board as love smooth turns. Do you think that maybe a semi pig or a modern pig would be better? The other thing is the nose and tail rocker, also would you recommend a slight nose concave?

I would want a board in the 9' - 9'6" range just because of the paddle power and trimming speed. Isn't Rob in US though? What other shapers would make a good pig in UK? I saw your orange pig on another thread, real sweet board!

Thank you skimmer :)
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby skimmer2 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:54 pm

Laurie_4surfing wrote:Yeah, that's the thing. It just feels a bit flat and dull but it could be the shaper...but definitely want a lively board as love smooth turns. Do you think that maybe a semi pig or a modern pig would be better? The other thing is the nose and tail rocker, also would you recommend a slight nose concave?

I would want a board in the 9' - 9'6" range just because of the paddle power and trimming speed. Isn't Rob in US though? What other shapers would make a good pig in UK? I saw your orange pig on another thread, real sweet board!

Thank you skimmer :)


Others on here will be better placed to give you feedback on other shapers - my experience only rests with Adrian at FJ when it comes to my piggy ....but based on the two boards he has made for me (the other a speed egg) I would go back to him no bother. Rob Lion (Royal) shapes overseas but you can order boards from him via seasofcheese (on here who is shipping them over for Rob...you can find seasofcheese (Mr Mason esq) or find him on Mason surfboards http://www.masonsurfboards.co.uk. A few on here have Royal piggies - my guess is that they are a tad more progressive/sharp in the tail than mine. Mine is nicely foiled out but very smooth all the way.
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:32 pm

I think if I went custom I would have a modified pig (not too wide) and have it nearer 9'. That's why I liked the look of a Jai Lee noserider. The video of jai testing it looks amazing! But I think the thing to do is find someone in Gower with a piggy and go from there. Or try any trad single fins to see if I like it.

I'm sure that ODD could do a piggy style log. Maybe I could speak to them...I would love a Royal board but couldn't afford it lol. Maybe I should wait out for one when I got the funds :)

How does yours turn? They look super smooth and how do they compare to a modern longboard shape? Sorry for the questions :lol:
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby skimmer2 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:35 am

Laurie_4surfing wrote:I think if I went custom I would have a modified pig (not too wide) and have it nearer 9'. That's why I liked the look of a Jai Lee noserider. The video of jai testing it looks amazing! But I think the thing to do is find someone in Gower with a piggy and go from there. Or try any trad single fins to see if I like it.

I'm sure that ODD could do a piggy style log. Maybe I could speak to them...I would love a Royal board but couldn't afford it lol. Maybe I should wait out for one when I got the funds :)

How does yours turn? They look super smooth and how do they compare to a modern longboard shape? Sorry for the questions :lol:


Turns quick - quicker than the smaller perf noserider I had. I don't have to have my back foot over the fins to turn it either.....but if I get the back foot right back it pivots easy----good bit of tail lift. As I'm not the best of surfers I used to bog a rail now and again with the previous longboard but never done this on the piggy as the nose is way smaller therefore the whole board narrows in from the widepoint...seems to help me anyway.
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Jory » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:34 am

Pigs are so "right now" aren't they?

In my opinion there's a lot of fun to be had from the pig influenced shapes. The jai lee is basically a noserider with the wide point pulled back and a narrower nose. No one in the UK is importing Thomas boards although he might be visiting the uk on a shaping trip at the end of the year.

Proper pigs have a narrower nose than even the jai lee and if we are being strict also have a d fin. 9' would be very small, unless you are a girl or tinier than me i'd go at least 9'4

Piggish boards do pivot well off the tail but they require more precise positioning to noseride. They are also harder to noseride in waves with less shape because of the narrow nose. Depending on how "traditional" a pig it is, they can feel like absolute dogs without a nice steep pocket to play in

For all the hype about pigs, there's still a lot to be said for the more paralell templated wider nosed logs as far as learning the traditional surfing ropes go especially in crappy onshore waves.

Either shape will be a very different experience in small waves to your current board.
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:12 pm

Haha I hate jumping on band wagons...but the design seems very good and super fun! Just want to broaden my surfing horizon :)

I don't think I will go for a trad. Pig shape as I know I don't have the longboard skills...yet! The concept of having the wide point further back really appeals to me, especially as I've been riding predominantly shorter boards. So maybe I don't want a pig...I think thats why the Jai Lee appealed to me. Aah thats a shame...such lovely boards! Do you think that any UK shapers would do a Jai Lee style board? What other styles have the wide point further back?

Aah ok, well I always say that I'd rather have more board than be under volume'd. I'm 6' and 13.5 st, so would maybe even 9'5/6 be better?

Thats really helped Jory, thank you :-) . I've just started learning and reading about longboard design and shaping to see where I want to go but is still hard... :? So maybe a slightly wider nose would suit me more.

I think I would just want a Trad. shape that turns smoothly and pivots well, reading about how pig style boards turn sounded siick.

Thanks again bud!
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby royal » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:14 pm

... what Jory said....

"pigs" are super fun. very lively, better noseriders than given credit for, but they are not for the faint of heart. By that I mean, you don't get one and expect it to just cruise along... they require more thought, more action on your part to keep them in the pocket - which they outrun very easily due to flatter rocker. But, this is why people love them as well. You don't just run up to the nose and stand there like an ornament, or you'll pearl. You have to look for the right section to nose ride, then run to the tail to cut back or you'll lose the wave. They're, fun because they're easy and challenging at the same time...

I don't make "pigs" per se. Most of my boards have slightly wider noses, super pinched out rails, and modern foils. Some have concave, some don't. None of them have a D fin, except the 1st one I made as a hanger. They are slow, stiff, and as all the 'old guys' I work with say, an idea they moved away from for a reason... but hey ho, that's the great thing about surfing - ride what ever you like!

There's a lot to be said for having a normal log, and just moving your widepoint back. The Nuuhiwa noserider is a great example of this, as are the equally hyped up Sams. My Ozzie template is a move towards the same thing as well, albeit from another angle.

It all depends on how you actually plan to surf the thing. If you want a full on jive machine that will challenge you to be a better surfer, a "pig" will do that. If you want the benefits of a hippy outline, but don't want to risk looking like a kook, or re-learning your approach to surfing, get the Jai Lee type of board...

oh, and I will be in the UK in september, hopefully working with my friend Adrian :wink:
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby royal » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:17 pm

Image

nuuhiwa outline...
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby skimmer2 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:06 pm

Laurie_4surfing wrote:Haha I hate jumping on band wagons...but the design seems very good and super fun! Just want to broaden my surfing horizon :)

I don't think I will go for a trad. Pig shape as I know I don't have the longboard skills...yet! The concept of having the wide point further back really appeals to me, especially as I've been riding predominantly shorter boards. So maybe I don't want a pig...I think thats why the Jai Lee appealed to me. Aah thats a shame...such lovely boards! Do you think that any UK shapers would do a Jai Lee style board? What other styles have the wide point further back?

Aah ok, well I always say that I'd rather have more board than be under volume'd. I'm 6' and 13.5 st, so would maybe even 9'5/6 be better?

Thats really helped Jory, thank you :-) . I've just started learning and reading about longboard design and shaping to see where I want to go but is still hard... :? So maybe a slightly wider nose would suit me more.

I think I would just want a Trad. shape that turns smoothly and pivots well, reading about how pig style boards turn sounded siick.

Thanks again bud!


Sounds like you need to speak to a shaper. I went to Adrian at FJ thinking I wanted a noserider but came out with his piggy shape. We talked it over and he steered me to what he thought would suit best....and he was right. You can get a piggy type styled board 9ft no probs - up to you and what you want from it. Entirely up to you what you want to surf...you just need to talk to a shaper who can guide you.
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:53 pm

I think that rules out the straight up pig as I don't think I have the skill for it but saying that I do like 'in the pocket' surfing and tend to set up anything I do on the wave. But something a bit more forgiving would be ideal.

I have been eyeing up your aussie models I gotta say and they obviously work! (saw your vid) I like that modernized pig designs, the updated features will suit me more as its what I'm used to. But still want something different.

I definitely know that I want a board that turns well and that is functional in a variety of conditions, but normally surf reefs and point style waves in smaller clean swells in Gower. The rails in the Jai Lee seem better for turns and the hard edges in the tail, dunno how the flutes work mind...guess makes the rail edgier??

Haha doubt I will have the funds by September Rob :-( but would love a board from you in the future :-) maybe next time your back?! Will definitely know by then what I want :lol: btw your pictures always have wikkid cars in the backgroud! kudos

Yeah, I think I should speak to the local guys and see what they find works or if they have tried pig style boards locally. Good call skimmer :-) Guts and PJ will know the score. But Rob knows what he's talking about when it comes to these designs but all the advice has been great so thank you all!
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Jory » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:01 am

the jai lees rails will give a bit more drive through the turn than a standard soft rail, kind of a less wallowy feel, the flutes help pull water over the tail for nose riding and remove volume from the rail to get it more pinched.

honestly if i were to give advice i'd get a good nuuhiwa derived log shape no smaller than 9'6. worth looking at the nineplus osprey which is basically a less obese nuuhiwa and fairly close in template to jai lee's original classic malibu model (without the step tail). I have one of those classic malibu jai's and it is ACE! (it's similar to the thomas one but with a flatter bottom and an 18 nose)
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:01 pm

The board I ride now has big rails and it always feels like it's trying to bounce back, if that makes sense? So pinched rails in the tail sound great.

The nineplus osprey does look sweet tbf and sounds like the type of thing I want. The flat bottom will make it more versatile too! But is the step tail for nose riding or turning?
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby AB3 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:09 pm

Just doing a pig for a guy flying in from Cali

9'9- 16 2/8 - 22 3/4 - 17 3/4 - 3"
Full belly no concave

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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Jory » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:11 pm

the steptail is on the jai lee not the osprey!

it's there partly to drag water over the tail as the step itself has flutes similar to the thomas jai lee, it also allows the tail to have a much bigger than normal kick which aides both noseriding (more drag) and turning (think kick tail on a skateboard)

see here

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SsuFv1bT8bw/S ... e+copy.jpg
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:53 pm

Wow AB3, that is a beautiful board :) what colour scheme you going for?

Haha I didn't make sense, my bad...I was just asking about it's performance qualities rather than suggesting it was on the osprey :)

I've just started learning about longboard designs as they're different to shortboards...and so is the terminology (yet can mean the same thing). Are there any books or websites which explains longboard designs and shaping? Feel mean asking so much...so thank you so much for your info and patien
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby AB3 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:47 pm

Hi Laurie
Thanks
Think this one is getting a two tone dark tint with a angled abstract mid band and gloss
:-D
Check out swaylocks though you may be reading for years!! Lol
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:56 am

You shapers really are highly skilled and I think thats what I love about long boarding is that there are much less 'pop outs'. The craftsmanship seems much higher! maybe thats just my experience of boards.

Thats gonna look siick :-D would love to see the finished product if possible.

Do you have a link for the website you were on about? tried searching and lots of swaylocks :?
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby AB3 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:45 am

Will post up a pic it won't be for 2 weeks though as I have too many boards on at the moment :o(
This one will be cool though

http://www.swaylocks.com/
Go into the forums it an be a bit of an information overload in there when you search for info but it's all there :-D
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:51 pm

haha swaylocks is amazing!! keep scanning through the forums and reading all the info
thank you :) I'm nearer to what I want next
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby namesarehard » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Jory wrote:Pigs are so "right now" aren't they?

Piggish boards do pivot well off the tail but they require more precise positioning to noseride. They are also harder to noseride in waves with less shape because of the narrow nose. Depending on how "traditional" a pig it is, they can feel like absolute dogs without a nice steep pocket to play in

For all the hype about pigs, there's still a lot to be said for the more paralell templated wider nosed logs as far as learning the traditional surfing ropes go especially in crappy onshore waves.


I've been thinking about this a little bit recently - it's a little bit like the whole "can i learn to surf on a shortboard" thing that continually appears - though it's more difficult to learn and your footwork has to be better, I guess at least you'd be learning "right" in the first place if you were willing/able to put in the time....

that said, I do completely agree with what you're saying about the benefits of a more parallel shape a lot of the time..particularly at some of our more popular longboarding waves!
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby mister-griffster » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:12 pm

Hey Laurie - I completely missed this thread, sorry - good stuff always comes up when you have your head in the sand. I see Pam shaped you a board (looks a beaut)

I ride Rest Bay / Gower all the time, have a Junod Pignar (pretty trad), just sold my Royal Post Modern Pig, have Jai Lee and all my other logs are of the widepoint back variety. I won't re-hash the other great advice others have given - all spot on. IF you want some tips on the best places to ride locally then hit me up - what i would say is theres a certain psychology involved - never be afraid or true piggie dimensions 16 1/2 fore and aft - 22 1/2 centre (all there, or there abouts) - a lot of log riders (myself included) aren't used to the weird dimensions and therefore get pretty intimidated by the narrow nose. Equally as well pig afficiandos will tell you it needs a Dee - it doesn't - not unless you want to slow the board down intentionally. You will certainly have to work a little harder initially to get the board dialled, and be quick and responsive if you want to get the best out of one - but stick at it. Mine have made me a better surfer and certainly given me much more enjoyment than a standard 'popsicle'.

One thing is for certain - you will have a lot more 'intimacy' with the wave riding a pig than a popsicle and you will alway leave the water with a smile. Great fun.

Let us have a ride report on your new log - very interested to hear how it goes
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:28 pm

Hey mister-griff!
I'm afraid that wasn't for me haha.
Aah i noticed that you sold your royal PMP, gutted as I don't have the funds at the mo and know it would go soo quick.
I'm really liking the look of that new Jai Lee model by Thomas. The tails assets sound very functional and design aspects look like they would be versatile.

Locally I mainly surf Aberavon, Langland (Crab) and peaks so would love a board that can surf at all three spot. Would love some local advice on what works as I know no one who surfs pig style boards...everyone I know surfs the prog. stuff.

I would also love to use a local shaper next to make a Jai Lee style board, any recommendations? (thinking Odd at the mo...) These are the dimensions and designs at the moment:

Length - 9' 5/6"
Width - 22 3/4" (4" back from centre)
thickness - 2 3/4"
Nose - 18 1/4"
Tail - 16 1/2"
Rails - 50/50 pinched, hard edges in tail
Concave - Slight nose concave/full belly/Veed out in tail
Single fin (dunno what fin :S)

Just dunno whether it would work locally but any advice you have would be amazing.
Cheers bud
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby mister-griffster » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:24 pm

Hey Laurie I'll PM you some stuff about spots etc Even tho they're all well-known it's nice too keep things on the down-low :wink:

I would say that a pig would suit those spots / waves you mentioned - those are the right kind of waves - walling and sucky in the right places - forget the breaks that are slow moving fat lumps, the board won't perform too well, but if you hang around a little on the inside then it will come to life on the little inside bowly sections or at low-tide - if you catch my drift :wink:

Dim's wise - now, I'm no expert on this - I'm just your average run of the mill wave catcher - Some of the other guys can have much more suitable input than me and be interested to hear their thoughts.

It depends on what you ride / what your expectations are / how you want to progress. I would say they're not particularly pig like dimensions - in fact the only thing that has in common with a pig is the widepoint back bit. That's all good BTW - those are more like the dims in the original Classic Malibu Jai Lee. From my experience in riding these boards, i would suggest the following - Length and width are fine - I'd pull the nose in a tad, probably go under 18" myself as I like the way a smaller nose fits tighter to the lip line and reduces swing weight. Also I'd probably ditch the concave - I like my boards to gain speed and I'm beginning to fall into the mindset that concaves are overated (at least in beachies - better in points). However that said, if i did go for concave I'd go really light and blended into flat into roll - again, ditch the vee - could prove too much of a drag - a nice soft rounded vee may work well tho. Pinch the rails out - think of a pinched rail and then squash it further - I like mine to be bladey, knife through butter / positive lock kinda feel. Fin set up - I'd stay away from a Dee, and either go pivot / keel fin - or something like a Velzy Noserider - upright but with all the bulk taken out. - Something along those lines would be between a pig / Magic Sam and modernised for warp speed / turn on a dime kinda feel.

Again, it depends on your priorities, if wave catching or nose-riding were your aims, I'd probably go fuller in the rail / bit more volume in the board for wave catching / upright rail in the nose / with reversed rocker and tail lift - little flick at the end or ashtray type tail. Al this can be played with to suit. The real secret tho is the rocker - something that's often overshadowed by fixations elsewhere on the board.

As for shapers I'd be talking to the usual suspects Rob / Steve Croft from Empire / Adrian Phillips from Fluid Juice / Chops etc- - all these guys understand pigs and the modern refinements needed. The Gill is a great shaper for sure - but these are not his usual fayre. However, he has just finished a widepoint back kinda log for a mate - similar type of dims but scaled up toward 10ft. It would certainly be worth having a chat with him.

Anyhoo - that's my 10 cents worth - it's all open to conjecture, and it's all good- but that would be my weapon of choice for seeking high-lines / pocket noserides / seeking the bowly sections and having a jive on the way - I'm sure there's better brains out there than mine that can suggest a suitable shape ;)

Hopefully catch you in the line-up chap
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby Laurie_4surfing » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:16 pm

Hey Griff

Haha i understand...probs know the spots you might mention but be great to know for deffo what are the best logging waves :-)

I think I've kinda ruled out a full-on pig as my footwork and nose riding skills aren't amazing. The Jai Lee models seem nearer to what I want as love to crank a turn but want something to improve my footwork/nose riding skills. Also been looking at Rob's Ozzie models too which seem pretty cool but more for nose riding really...

Thank you very much for the input on the dims, thats great advice :-) it's what I need right now. With the rail, is 50/50 or 60/40 better? Paddle power sounds better but go super pinched in the tail for turns. I was actually looking at the Velzy nose rider fin the other day, can pick one up for around 60 quid but is it better to go glass on? btw what do you mean by an ashtray tail?

I think I will go with Rob if I don't go local but probably wait until he is back next as won't have funds ready for next month...I'll have a chat with the Gill and see what he thinks :) It's great getting advice from a local boyo! My mates all say get a progressive longboard...so nice to hear from someone with a traditional mind set.

Be great to meet up! thanks again
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby royal » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:03 am

i love a pig, but have personally moved away from the std pig shape in favour of just a rear widepoint, and slightly fuller nose.

they're still narrow in comparison to a floating footpath, but still nose ride just fine, and reward an active approach...

my current fave is just rolled bottom nose to tail, up to down rails hull style, super pinched out, with the cruiser fin from rainbow. Not a very forgiving board, but once figured out, it goes anywhere you want...

fun fun fun!
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby mister-griffster » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:59 pm

No Worries Laurie - yeah I'll hit you up with those spots to try. Sounds like you need a blend of something widepoint back but still a little forgiving - there are some boards out there for that for sure. If you want to take a look at plan shapes take a look at Brian Hilbers fineline logs -You're probably looking at something toward the Ant / Avenger / Highcat - depends how 'piggie' you want to go.

What I would say is that I don't actually find the Jai Lee (classic mal) shape the easiest board to turn (though you can pilot it easily through the turns) - true I'm only 11.5 stone - My Bing Elevator turns way easier and that's a widepoint back kinda board.

I reckon If you want if for a few noserides follow Robs advice, widepoint back, parallel rail and fuller nose upfront ;)
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby mister-griffster » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:59 pm

No Worries Laurie - yeah I'll hit you up with those spots to try. Sounds like you need a blend of something widepoint back but still a little forgiving - there are some boards out there for that for sure. If you want to take a look at plan shapes take a look at Brian Hilbers fineline logs -You're probably looking at something toward the Ant / Avenger / Highcat - depends how 'piggie' you want to go.

What I would say is that I don't actually find the Jai Lee (classic mal) shape the easiest board to turn (though you can pilot it easily through the turns) - true I'm only 11.5 stone - My Bing Elevator turns way easier and that's a widepoint back kinda board.

I reckon If you want if for a few noserides follow Robs advice, widepoint back, parallel rail and fuller nose upfront ;)
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Re: Advice on Pigs, jai lee nose riders etc

Postby skimmer2 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:54 pm

Dims on my FJ are:

9ft 6
3 inches thick
widepoint 6 back
23.5 wide
16.5 nose (very subtle concave)
16 and a quarter tail
Tail - rounded diamond tail
rolled top to bottom
50/50 pinched rails and nicely foiled but not too much and no sharp edges
10 inch Rainbow MD3 fin
low rocker
77 litres

I keep hearing about these boards being hard to surf which confuses me...found this one very easy from the start...bags of fun and easier than a standard longboard..and I'm not a good surfer. I can see that it will be harder to noseride than my previous longboard.....but I'm no noseriding genius...need to work on that one :lol: I reckon if you get away from any extremes you'll have a good board. Just to add....the fin you choose makes a noticeable difference too......not found a fin better than the MD3 yet for me....even going to start using one on a SUP!
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