Firewire Vanguard

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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby zboy » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:36 pm

Archy_is_God wrote:
usedtobe69 wrote:i'm not trying to piss on anyones chips here, but, having ridden a vanguard for 10 months i've got to know how it goes, this is the problem with the firewires, they didn't do it right, they're short but ride longer due the straight template, if a 5'1 feels borderline oversized for someone 5'9 what is a 5'6 gonna feel like?

they should've put 24-25L into the 5'2 as the main one and worked from there,

they didn't because firewires bulk of sales are to guys who can't surf that well and want big corky boards, shame really, and a strange one for them to take tomo's designs on as he's always been about super thin small foiled out ultra performance in the past, how money changes things...

please don't' let my rantings/opinions make you choose something that won't float you, i'm just saying how one person sees it,

they're saying to go with the correct volumes because they know what they've done and don't want people to shit out and not be able to catch waves on their £650 surfboards.


Amen.

The 'volume calculator' is at once the single most misunderstood and abused marketing term to enter the surfboard dialogue in the last few years.... I hate it. It has such a vague effect on whether a board will catch waves or perform better than another board as it's often looked at as a variable in isolation to the really important design aspects such as rocker, bottom shape, foil etc..... It really winds me up. A beachball is a hundred times more floaty than an alaia, but you ain't catching many waves on it.

Some boards only really work well when they have the right amount of volume and for some designs, this is a low figure, but it only tells part of a story.

But then, people don't want to have to understand these things - they are happy being spoonfed a shitload of marketing bollocks and enjoy being told what to ride in each specific condition to make their surfing experience better without the investment of time in really learning how to develop their surfing.

I notice that these big companies don't mention that if certain boards are too corky, then it actually becomes harder to catch waves, not easier!

Fellow ranter, over and out :salute:


amen to that brother :-) :-D
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby marc1 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:33 am

Got the board, it certainly looks strange but the 5'4 looks like it is the perfect length, however, the Gower has gone flat ( that is always the case when you get a new board)
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby Archy_is_God » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:17 pm

Ah, it's your fault then! :lol:

Keep us updated on ride reports :arrow:
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby prjwebb » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:17 pm

Where did you get it Marc?
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby Cuttlefish » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:07 pm

zboy wrote:
Archy_is_God wrote:
usedtobe69 wrote:i'm not trying to piss on anyones chips here, but, having ridden a vanguard for 10 months i've got to know how it goes, this is the problem with the firewires, they didn't do it right, they're short but ride longer due the straight template, if a 5'1 feels borderline oversized for someone 5'9 what is a 5'6 gonna feel like?

they should've put 24-25L into the 5'2 as the main one and worked from there,

they didn't because firewires bulk of sales are to guys who can't surf that well and want big corky boards, shame really, and a strange one for them to take tomo's designs on as he's always been about super thin small foiled out ultra performance in the past, how money changes things...

please don't' let my rantings/opinions make you choose something that won't float you, i'm just saying how one person sees it,

they're saying to go with the correct volumes because they know what they've done and don't want people to shit out and not be able to catch waves on their £650 surfboards.


Amen.

The 'volume calculator' is at once the single most misunderstood and abused marketing term to enter the surfboard dialogue in the last few years.... I hate it. It has such a vague effect on whether a board will catch waves or perform better than another board as it's often looked at as a variable in isolation to the really important design aspects such as rocker, bottom shape, foil etc..... It really winds me up. A beachball is a hundred times more floaty than an alaia, but you ain't catching many waves on it.

Some boards only really work well when they have the right amount of volume and for some designs, this is a low figure, but it only tells part of a story.

But then, people don't want to have to understand these things - they are happy being spoonfed a shitload of marketing bollocks and enjoy being told what to ride in each specific condition to make their surfing experience better without the investment of time in really learning how to develop their surfing.

I notice that these big companies don't mention that if certain boards are too corky, then it actually becomes harder to catch waves, not easier!

Fellow ranter, over and out :salute:


amen to that brother :-) :-D

As a foil to this is the agony of indecission while average surfers choose between a board a couple of inches different in length like the world title depended upon it.
But then they'll happily jump on a longboard and have fun.
Using an alaia and a medicine ball analogy is worhtless and mis-leading. :wink:
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby Archy_is_God » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:51 pm

Yes, it's a bit of a silly example, but the point about planing and ergo, wave-catching, is valid I think.

Your first point is a good one
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby Cuttlefish » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:52 pm

Only ripping into the analogy because it's an apples vs oranges thing.
An alaia vs a surf mat would be a more valid comparison.
Lo and behold they still both work even with their vastly different volumes.
However their ride is completely different.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby Archy_is_God » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:57 pm

They are both relatively flat, too.. the beachball analogy was used to show that volume (or lack thereof) does not stand alone as the key factor in catching waves

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby Cuttlefish » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:08 am

Not trying to bust your balls over this... :lol:
Back to vanguards....
Heath Joske certainly was throwing one around with ease on the board test (ASL I think).
Too bad they done busted it.
Looked like one of the most progressive boards in the whole test.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby marc1 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:02 pm

PRJWEBB, i got my board from OZ, as my mate was coming back last week and he brought it with him. I am under the impression that the container to the UK is not due until May, however, i could be wrong. You will know when they have arrived as no doubt there will be a few on the for sale board
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby prjwebb » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:03 pm

First limited batch is in in the next week or so. The following container will be May. I was wondering if yours was fresh off the new shipment. Mine should be in any day, fingers crossed.
Hopefully you get to surf yours this week! Will be interested to hear feedback.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby d.kennett 1983 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:45 am

I have made one of these in 5'5 feels really good prob could of dropped an inch and bit of volume as it floats better than a board of the same volume lying down feels like my 5'11 and standing up feels more stable than my 5'6 didn't wana chance dropping to much length on the first proto type as a had been having a bit of a nitemare on the 5'6 prob lack of surf it paddles really nice catches easy prob favours a more lined up wave....have had local lads tynemouthmatt and few others try it out n all said it felt good...still under testing but looking forward to pushing it to see how far it can go
http://kandksurfboards.co.uk/

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/KK-surfboards/332681570101640
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby marc1 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:49 pm

I have surfed the board twice on a quad and thruster and the thruster certainly makes it a bit more responsive.
Pro's
The board is quick, quicker than any other board i have had
It is also fun in and around the pocket

Con's
It is a bugger to catch waves with especially days like today with a strong off shore
Initially it nose dives a bit, but you have to adjust your footing

Otherwise it is OK, not brilliant but certainly not rubbish, however, in its defense i have not had a solid reef day yet. I am taking it to peniche next month,so i will get a better idea of how it works then
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby prjwebb » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:37 pm

marc1 wrote:I have surfed the board twice on a quad and thruster and the thruster certainly makes it a bit more responsive.
Pro's
The board is quick, quicker than any other board i have had
It is also fun in and around the pocket

Con's
It is a bugger to catch waves with especially days like today with a strong off shore
Initially it nose dives a bit, but you have to adjust your footing

Otherwise it is OK, not brilliant but certainly not rubbish, however, in its defense i have not had a solid reef day yet. I am taking it to peniche next month,so i will get a better idea of how it works then


Happy with the sizing of the 5'4"?
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby marc1 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:14 am

The 5'4 is ample with more than enough float, once you get over the psychology of using such a small board it is fun. I certainly would not go any bigger, a 5'8 or 5'10 would be way to big for the majority of surfers, the whole volume caclulator, certainly does not work for this board.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby usedtobe69 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:20 am

marc1 wrote:I have surfed the board twice on a quad and thruster and the thruster certainly makes it a bit more responsive.
Pro's
The board is quick, quicker than any other board i have had
It is also fun in and around the pocket

Con's
It is a bugger to catch waves with especially days like today with a strong off shore
Initially it nose dives a bit, but you have to adjust your footing

Otherwise it is OK, not brilliant but certainly not rubbish, however, in its defense i have not had a solid reef day yet. I am taking it to peniche next month,so i will get a better idea of how it works then


cough cough... told you so... cough, lol

it'll take you a few sessions to dial in how to surf this design, at least 5-6 sessions.

back foot needs to be RIGHT at the back, make sure your tailpad reflects that.

a 3 piece pad is the go for these.

you also need to be an AGILE surfer to really make it work properly.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby marc1 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:14 pm

I have to confess, having had a couple of days in peniche trying it at supertubos etc, i have sold my vanguard. I am a fairly experienced surfer, however, the lack of paddling power, the way the board suits a back footed surfer meant that i sold it rather than loosing any more surfing time over it. I felt the board is not a UK board (this is only my opinion) as it does not go in mush etc and i felt i would have to alter my surfing style to make this board a worthy member of my quiver. I am going to hold out until the V4 instead. I am sure many of you will love it and your surfing style will better suited to the vanguard than i was. :?
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby prjwebb » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:37 pm

the 506 paddles good, haven't had a good session on it yet though as the waves have sucked. fingers crossed tomorrow will produce.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby usedtobe69 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:27 pm

maybe firewires version isn't as good as a custom? :twisted: :twisted: my 5'1 custom blazes in everything from knee/waist to double overhead :-D

the V4 needs waves with POWER, it doesn't go at all in average/slack/weaker waves from my experience although it is an easier far less radical ride than the vanguard.

i foresee a LOT of these boards in the classifieds very soon, they are HUGE departure from a traditional style board, pretty specialist in my opinion.

it helps that i've been riding tiny high performance tomo style boards for years so the adjustment was small for me, i can't see most people really getting to grips with the feel coming straight over from a conventional type board.

how much you selling for? :D
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby prjwebb » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:23 pm

I feel like mine will work fine in smaller stuff once I get it dialled in. I just know I will have an easier time getting it wired in decent waves with a bit of time to feel it out.
I still want to try the 5'4 though because the 5'6 feels like quite a lot of board to me.
Mark said odd increments will be released in the next couple of months so 5'5 might be spot on. Or wait until next year and order one in custom dims through the CBD program.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby Archy_is_God » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:33 pm

Or buy Jimo's handshaped 5'5 EPS V4 ..... :2d
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby prjwebb » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:00 pm

Archy_is_God wrote:Or buy Jimo's handshaped 5'5 EPS V4 ..... :2d

You mean the one that came out 1/4" thicker than ordered? Man I Iove handshapes...
I'm also about 4" taller than Jimo so I think a 5'5 pointed nose would be way too short for me.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby usedtobe69 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:01 pm

i see the vanguard being a short lived 'phenomenon' in the mass marketplace, it really isn't a board for the masses, at all. it's ultra specialist/niche, high end performance,
maybe some of the concepts can be blended to evolve board design in general but as it stands i can't see it being suited to the mass market.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby prjwebb » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:11 pm

Yeah agree with you on that. Interested to see how things evolve. I don't imagine it'll replace my normal boards but I do like trying different things.
It could end up being all I want to ride though.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby usedtobe69 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:17 pm

prjwebb wrote:
Archy_is_God wrote:Or buy Jimo's handshaped 5'5 EPS V4 ..... :2d

You mean the one that came out 1/4" thicker than ordered? Man I Iove handshapes...
I'm also about 4" taller than Jimo so I think a 5'5 pointed nose would be way too short for me.


it was 3/16 btw :wink: :lol:
the 5'5 would fit you no problem at all, i ordered it long as a stepup,

tomo fucked up,he still owes me a replacement at cost, he wasn't up to the load he placed on himself with the xmas discount he ran.

at least it's a long lasting build, XTR is great, apart from heel dents my vanguard doesn't have a mark on it, nothing, not even a crack or pressure dent after a year as the only board i ride, fucking ridiculous, i'd like to see how a rapidfire would compare under the same usage.

be better if this doesn't turn into a bashing thread though prj?

more a healthy discussion.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby prjwebb » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:34 pm

Yeah sorry.
Yeah I don't imagine RF holding up quite so well, though I did just sell a Rapidfire spitfire that's 2 years old and still in great shape. A few spider cracks on rails and a front foot well was about it. The many angles, points and hard edges on the Vanguard worry me for dings though. That wasn't my everyday board though.
Would love to try your V4 if you're ever down this way!
Has Tomo said anything about making a replacement? I guess shipping is the issue?
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby Archy_is_God » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:52 pm

If I had the cash, I'd nab it off him for sure and I'm in just under 6'2 and no spring chicken :lol:

TBH, I'd also try one of the FWs that will soon be available in the classifieds later this year if it was the right price.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby defever » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:24 pm

Revival!

Just starting to have an interest in Vanguard shape. From the posts on this thread, there seemed to be alot of expectation from this board, but seems it got burned prematurely, at least for the average riders on average UK waves. But only few Vanguards have been on second hand sales.

One summer season gone, I'm sure the handful of those who ordered a Vanguard had plenty (?!) of time to go out and surf. Now, how does it feel?

I'd be interested to hear what the riders thought and what they plan to do with it for the winter...

yay or nay?
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby prjwebb » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:33 am

my 5'4 x 18" x 2.38" diplock is all i surf now. so much more versatile and enjoyable to ride than a HPSB but you can still surf as critical as your ability and the wave allows without the board holding you back in anyway.
a little more effort paddling against rips maybe, easier wave catching, more fluid, faster, more drive, just as loose... win/win unless your local break is a bit open playing field with strong rips, then it can be a bit tiring.
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Re: Firewire Vanguard

Postby defever » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:27 am

Picked this up from "post your board" thread.

usedtobe69 wrote:my new 5'0 that is absolutely flying for me, shaped by me (some help from waxer00 xx) glassed by diplock pheonix, truly exceptional finishing.


Image
Image


prjwebb, would you say Vanguard-type board is also a mushburger muncher?
I'm presuming not based on the earlier comments, but those comments were early days so the views may have changed?
Thanks for your feedback.
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