Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Any discussion on shaping, designing, repairing and riding surfcraft of any type or shape. Also a good place to ask the 'what board should I buy?' question.

Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby VillageIdiot » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:24 pm

Anybody had any experience with boards like the Quiver 'Fony' or the Fluid Juice 'Half Pipe', ridden as a summer fish alternative ?
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Craivold » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:57 am

Yeah bought something similar to this shape to this in March this year, it was on a whim really as it was going cheap on eBay - the Pepperjelly from Cre8tion - http://www.zumajay.co.uk/Cre8tionSurfbo ... -Quad-Fin/. It's basically based on the JS Pier Pony, mine's a 5'7 but all other dims are the same as the one above. I got it as I wanted something that was easier to duck dive than my 23" wide and 3" thick Simmons type board but still maintain a lot of foam for ease of wave entry and speed on weaker waves and this thing is ideal for that. I find I take it out when the waves are less than perfect, not lined up, windswell type conditions as it's fairly easy to turn and paddle into random wedges that come your way! It almost has the feel of a much thinner shortboard when on rail (not that I get it on rail all that much!) but due to the width you lose a bit of responsiveness but its a lot more stable and turns are more drawn out affairs or slidey type slashes/hacks. I imagine it would be a great thing for floaters and airs too but since as I can't do them I can't say whether it is or not :lol: . The only thing I've found is getting used to the vee in the tail was a little tricky - I would sometimes put too much weight when transitioning from heel to toe or vice-versa and end up over cooking it and bogging a rail. Definitely a heap of fun though and makes even little thigh-highers a laugh which is difficult to do on a board that short. If you like shortboardy type surfing you'll probs get on well with one.

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I imagine Boardbarn maybe able to lend you out a Fony as a try before you buy effort? Failing that eBay specials are always good for trying out boards, if you don't like it you can normally shift it on for not too much of a loss in dough.
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby VillageIdiot » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:42 pm

Some quality feedback there CV, thanks for that. It was Guy at the B.B. that brought the 'Fony' to my attention as an alternative to a Simmons type board (He doesn't seem to rate them). I presume that they are not as 'squirty/bursty' as a single concave board like a keel fish or mini-sim but are more responsive, especially with a three fin setup.
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby EasyTom » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:03 pm

Just found your thread because I'm wondering similarly... The most fun really-short/wide board I've had a quick go on was a 5'2 Hobie, Tyler Warren 'Bar of Soap'. Obviously heard good things about Mini-Sims eg 5'2 ish Bings etc. I've recently seen a few similar idea short wide boards with more like a rounded pintail. But, when you're looking for a bit of 'blast' on a smaller or messier/mushy day the wide square tail would be important for speed wouldn't it? Is this the case? Does a drawn in tail really slow you down much in comparison with a wide square(ish) Simmonsy tail?
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby VillageIdiot » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:47 pm

That wasn't you out at middle beach on a gondola the other day was it Tom ? Wearing a winter suit ? No, I thought not.
Boardwise, I'm talking strictly cut + shut shortboard types that have been plumped up for summer conditions. I'm looking for a more responsive alternative to a fish or Simmons.
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby EasyTom » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:30 pm

Hahaa! Not me, I've traded in my gondola for a LDP. That's a 'Lie Down Paddleboard" that I've invented for some truly lazy sneakery...

I was thinking about a 5'5 Quiver, snub nose rounded pintail, that I saw in Board Barn with a longboard centre box and four FCS boxes for Quad/Thruster/2+1/single options. On the downside - how many decisions do you want to have to make on the beach? :shock: But looks like a fun board.
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby VillageIdiot » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:19 pm

It was Guy at B.B. and his anti-Simmons ranting that made me look at these boards in the first place. There seems to be a pro and anti Simmons divide developing in these parts, I have yet to try a mini-Sim. But I imagine that they ride something like a cross between a hull and a keel fish, which sounds good to me.
Never did get round to building that Tom Blake paddle-board but I am considering one of these http://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/kits/surf ... ddleboard/
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby surfrat » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:35 am

i don't think we really have the waves in north devon that a mini simmons would work well in. maybe lined up saunton but then i never really surf there much. i'd be way more keen on the blown up shortboard as it'll be nippier rail to rail and allow you to keep progressing your surfing and surfing in a shortboard style on the crappy days. i've got one of the circle one funky pigs, a 5'4 round tail that goes really well.
last summer i had a few twin fins and they were good if surf was clean but because tail is so wide you need to kinda plan ahead too much what turn you might put in but the nippier thrusters allow more responsiveness and let you react to what a messier wave might throw at you.
my experimentation is over...short, thick, wide, 3 fins...not too much of a beastly wide tail...job done
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Craivold » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:26 pm

:lol: @ the Gondola story, sounds like he was really getting into the spirit of this summer we're having.... beats last year for weather I have to say 8)

Simmons type boards are amazing at lined up Saunton, perfect kind of wave for them really but I don't agree in that they are not as fun as a short fat shortboard in the not so perfect stuff. If I'm looking for the most fun per surf value it would be a Simmons type shape for me, I find it more 'fun' than the Pepperjelly shortboard I have but then thats largely because I love the buttery smooth feel and the speed it gives you on any type of wave, even slopey/mushy windswell. First surf I had on this board

Image

was at Saunton, 1-2ft and blown out on a November day.... bloody loved it! As they're bigger boards (the Mini Simmons) you can get into waves a little earlier too so maximising your time up and riding whatever the conditions (although its a fairly slim advantage over a really big shortboard like a Pepperjelly/Fony/Pier Pony etc...), flip side of that is though that they are less responsive and able to make tighter turns or more shortboard-esque manoeuvres so as Surfrat says I think if you have a very shortboardy style it takes some adjusting whereas a blown up shorty would feel more natural.

So basically.... both fun shapes, just depends on what you want from a board really - horses for courses and all that!
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby EasyTom » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:19 pm

I think you're right Craivold - & you'll certainly get more use out of both kinds of shapes than that 6'3 performance thruster, which I've still only surfed twice! I've heard really good things about short Simmonsy shapes in all kinds of waves round here.

By the way, my gondola doesn't exist. I would like to point out that I've never been SUPing either, VillageIdiot was taking the piss because I once falsely accused him of SUPing round Wooly way...
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Craivold » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:17 pm

Haha, false accusations of SUPage... a serious offence round these parts I here. SUPing has never taken my fancy either, I've had mates who've tried it but its a slippery slope..... :oops: :wink:

Shame you've only surfed the 6'3 twice, read your blog post about it and thought it was a good appraisal of the board really - they feel so alive on a wave with a bit of shove but yeah I just don't surf those type of waves often at all. I picked up a fatter 6'2 Doofer (probably exactly the same as your Bumble) that will probably be all the performance I ever need to be honest although I think I've only surfed that twice as well! That's the thing about quivers, they are a blessing and a curse, quite a few times in the last year I've come away thinking "mmmm.... that would have been better on XYZ board..." :lol:

All this talk of fatty shortboards is getting me in the mood to dust mine off, hopefully with a big dollop of luck Kernow will have some waves come the weekend.
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby VillageIdiot » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:33 pm

Don't get me wrong chaps, I'm not anti-Supper.In fact I'm not boardist in any way, I actually like their ability to out-paddle the logging crew. Kind of gives the loggers a taste of their own medicine. At the moment it looks like they are having the last laugh with this extended flat spell.
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby EasyTom » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:39 am

I'm not anti-Supper either... I'm not even anti-Breakfast for that matter. Boom-boom :oops: You've gone and got me tempted by a Fony now too! :roll:
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Jory » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:29 pm

For the record, the sims go great in all the waves round here, especially in crappy windswell when their wide flat nature skates you over sections and as long as u go short enough they still turn!

How they feel depends on the detail a bit, some feel like a smooth fast fish (bar of soap for example) some feel more like a hull that turns (Lovelace velo sim)

I'm not sure what guy at bb thinks but he hasn't ridden anything under 9 foot himself so I'd take his view with a pinch if salt!

Gulfstream have a sim model available from now which sits between the bar of soap and the bing sim and is definately at the more maneuverable end of the spectrum Image
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Also at the risk of being a bit 5 years ago, what about a Short quad fish? They are ace in smaller waves of all descriptions
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Jory » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:03 pm

Bottom line, everything is a compromise just depends which direction, the more flat and wide your board the better it goes as the waves get smaller or weaker and the less effort you need to put in to make the board plane along, as soon as you narrow the tail, put a bit if rocker in or foil it out more the more push u need from the wave or the more effort you need to put into pumping it to stop it bogging down. It partly depends on your own short boarding ability. If you are a really good thruster surfer, you can make a tiny board work in tiny waves take scoopet as an example.

That said, the sim boards are more of a longboarders shortboard than somthing a "proper" thruster surfer will love.

The other point worth making about mini Simmons is that you need to stay short for them to make sense, if you go too long then there's a LOT of foam to manhandle and a lot of straight rail to break out of line to turn. There's a reason tyler warren, Mikey detemple and co ride 4'11 to 5'2 size ones!
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby zboy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:52 am

dont you just love pigeon holes, what is a proper thruster surfer? and sims are for long-boarders that's like saying longboards are for learners:roll: :-) ive a 4.11 sims by paul at glide and its still a lot of foam and board :shock:
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Jory » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:54 pm

Ok i was typing quickly.

By "proper thruster surfer" i mean those who grew up riding white pointy shortboards in the 6'1 kinda range, whose points of reference are slater, jordy, fanning etc and by "longboarder" i mean the kind of surfer that maybe has never owned a "proper 6'1 shortboard" and whose points of reference are people like tyler warren or dan malloy who surf lots of different types and sizes of boards who share a common thread of glide, flow and not chasing "the hardest most vertical hack / biggest air reverse"

maybe i should pidgeon hole people as "readers of carve" or "readers of foam symmetry / surfers journal" instead ?!!

According to the cnc machine program, a 5'2 simmons has a similar amount of foam to a 6 foot speedialler quad fish
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Craivold » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:47 pm

Good little thread this one (pun intended) :-D

Jory is spot on I think really, labels aside, it's down to how you want to surf or what interests you most- someone looking to surf vertically, try aerials and complete the maximum amount of manouvres per wave is not going to enjoy a Simmonsy type shape no matter how small as they are designed to generate their own speed and complete more carvey, flowing type moves. That's not to say they can't transition from rail-to-rail rapidly because they can, just not in the way a conventional performance shortboard can- every shape is a compromise of sorts. And that's also not to say that someone who loves vertical CT style surfing will not get on or enjoy a Mini Simmons type shape but they do have to accept that they will be surfing in a different way.

Had a nice surf this morning in wedgey semi-closeout waves in Bude on my 5'7 Cre8tion fat shortboard, was super fun. I love the mini simmonsy type shapes but do feel more comfortable on something more foiled, slightly more rockered and eliptical when its steeper.... not sure whether its just me..... But there's definitely a place in my quiver for both types of board 8)
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby VillageIdiot » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:06 pm

So are we saying that a fat shorty has more 'range' (wave type rather than size) than a mini-sim and is therefore more versatile ?
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Jory » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:24 pm

Kinda, depends what you want i suppose. You can make either work in most stuff if you have to.

The fat shorty will need less nursing and will feel more comfortable in steeper or bigger waves but loses grovel ability in mush. the sim will go better in poor quality waves but it's straight rail line and wider tail will have you on the limits of control earlier as wave size and steepness and quality increases, much as cravoid points out

Like i said before, the speedialler style double bump quad with normal quad fins rather than the canard style do make a good compromise between crap waves and better waves
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Jory » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:27 pm

If you take c-gate as an example of a fairly average beachy, i've had quality surfs on both a fish and a sim there but would feel more comfortable on a headhigh plus day on a thinned out fish or quad. Under head high i'd probably ride the sim every time
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Craivold » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:07 pm

Spot on again Jory, although I'm not sure on the Dialer type fishes ability to grovel as well as the other two shapes we've been discussing here, they certainly go really well in all kinds of waves but I think Sims and the fat shortboards (and when I say fat I mean the real lard arse ones like Pier Pony, Butterball, Bottom Feeder etc... not your dumpster diver types) grovel better. I've had Archy's old 5'10 Speed Dialer for a good while now and loved it in all kinds of waves - steep head high Watergate to thigh high Bourno Pier and as you say they do encapsulate a lot of the qualities found in dumpy shortboards and Sim type boards but since I've had both of the latter I've ridden the Dialer hardly at all. It feels glidier on the wave than the fat shorty but is harder to paddle into waves and, although it feels glidey, I don't reckon it planes as well over flatter sections..... I haven't ridden it since mid winter so I could be talking shit :? . I don't think I'd sell it, it's not worth much now and it's always a fun shape to come back to but for out and out grovel, glide and fun its definitely a Sim for me. And as Jory says you can make them work in steeper stuff (just don't take one out in well overhead c'gate, not too fun :shock: ) but that's not quite right in the boards 'slot' from my experience - Again where my previous comments come in about needing something a touch more foiled, rockered and eliptical in the more critical stuff.

Surfboards eh? Quite bloody complicated aren't they? Are we even helping someone come to a decision about what to go for here? :lol:
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby Jory » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:56 pm

I agree cravoid. You are right about the speedialler shapes, they dont grovel as well and once again its about where you accept the compromise.

That said, if you have seen skel from gulfstream surf one in waist high saunton you'd see what i meant....... he is a f**kin good surfer on anything though!
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby defever » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:08 am

How are you getting on with this search?

I'm in search of something similar (Sub-6ft Single or 2+1 Egg or Stubbie, what do you think?), for an onshore mushy waves. Initially I was looking at single fins + 2 but shifting towards quads now.

I haven't bought one yet, but I'm looking at 7s Cog 5'3" / 5'6", Circle One Funky Pig 5'2" or 5'4". I did think of Firewire Sweet Potato 5'2" also. That sort of stuff.
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby EasyTom » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:01 pm

I just picked this up, surfed it twice so far. It's 5'5, single into big double concaves, volume fairly evenly distributed throughout (34.5L), not sure what the glassing is but it's light like a standard thruster so probably 6 and 4 or something. First time I surfed it as 2+1 with a 6" centre fin and it felt a bit floppy. Surfed it this morning as a quad to add a bit of stability and drive (these 'Flores' stripy fins have a bit more length at the base than the K.2.1s) and it was really really good fun. It needs a little bit more 'work' than a mini-Sim (in my limited experience) but I prefer it for that and it has a playful, more shortboard, feel in the turns. I had a go on a Fony this morning too and that felt even more shortboardy again. This board is just right for me, having a bit more volume - in the nose too - making wave catching easier than the Fony (which feels like a shortboardy-fish to me, whereas this feels like a shortboardy-miniSim-ish thing). Really gets a bit of speed up with the right bit of pressure but doesn't have that flat scooty Simmons feel. I love it so far - seems like just the thing I was after. It's hand shaped by Felix Dickson (FeeStix) for Quiver.

Hopefully this pic will work:

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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby defever » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:19 pm

^^NICE! What's the dimensions?

Felix makes good solid boards, I once had his Fatbarstard model and it was really good fun. He's a big wave charger in NZ and was shaping there as Feestix unti few years ago when he came to Quiver for a year for experience. I don't know the quality of his boards now, but I guess others on here would know more about him and his boards.

This is looking quite promising. 5'5", still lots of volume, quad.

Thanks EasyTom for sharing.
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby surfrat » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:22 pm

looks nice tom but unsure why he bothered putting a single fin box in it...think of all the drag it'll cause when unused...looks fun tho. love big round asses!
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby defever » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:43 pm

^^ May be influenced by Tudor's single fin style? Seen few short clips of Joel, Rasta, Rob on stubby-ish tiny boards on singles.

Would be nice to have a single option but probably not worth for the number of occasions that it's actually used as a single. Five fin option maybe, but I can't see it as a thruster (one of the Funky Pigs is 5'4" on a thruster, isn't it).

Also single to double concave bottom: wondering how the turnings are like? Sweet Potato is 5'4" x 21" x 2" 1/2" 35L and has a massive vee bottom from halfway down and I hear that's what makes it turn on a dime.

I can read brochures... I really want to try one of these sub 6" stubby boards.
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby EasyTom » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:48 pm

defever wrote:^^NICE! What's the dimensions?


Basic dimensions: 5'5, 21", 2 1/2".

It's turned nicely for me but I'm not going to make any big judgements yet as I've only surfed it twice and I'm not Kelly Slater or anything. I like the idea of being able to try single fin (or 2+1), but from my experience so far I'll probably mostly surf it quad. Though I'd like to try performance keels with a small trailer or 'nubster' one day!?! Not noticed drag from the fin box (I know it must be there) but then I rarely ever even notice the drag from my leash... probably get slowed up more by poor technique than anything anyway!

So many boards, so little time...
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Re: Short, Fat & Wide (Fish/Shortboard Hybrid).

Postby g_baby » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:04 am

This really turned into a quality thread well worth following - thanks guys!

As a matter of modern nowadays surfing you cannot avoid talking, reading, hearing about short fat wide boards - which, for me, is kind of very interesting. We'll see what media tells us in a few years time, but at the mo those short fat wide boards seem to rule any "surfing board line-up". And I really do understand the reason why. Which does not mean there is no space for anything else left - ab3s, singles, quads, asyms, sims, logs and all sorts of nicely/manually transformed foam catches my interest. Thrusters though seem to be out of range for me personally though.

Tom, thanks for posting your stunner! Was also deeply impressed when Guy posted her on his wall. So congrats for grabbing yourself a beauty which, for me, looks just unreal! Love those round and even bluntish noses, love those colours and the outline in general is just the way a board should look like for my money. The only problem here are my skills, as I'm not able to water my boards enough to call myself a surfer and therefore have the necessity to call those beauties my precious. Nevermind, can't have everything in life.

You've written you were also able to take out a Fony. Did you feel any differences between your stunner and the Fony when paddling out into the line-up (duck-diving included) and for a wave? Volume and dims-wise, those two look quite similar to me, but...
I'm asking as my girl still tries to find a board that paddles easy as the strength is more limited by nature but does not rule her when paddling out. And once she's managed to be out where she wants to be, she does not get enough speed or does not get picked up by the wave early enough to be in the situation of controlling the board and the wave (if that's possible at all) and not being controlled by the board/ wave. As I said, same thing when trying to paddle out...

She already tried a Donkey in 5'4 and felt quite comfortable with, in 3" Fistral summer waves though (no typing mistake here, I'm afraid). The Donkey and the Fony do look quite similar to me. But she doesn't really know how these boards go in real 1-3ft waves.

Well, and I now wonder whether a more pointy nose would help with paddling out but wouldn't slow here down when paddling for a wave as for my unexperienced eye those pointier noses seem to create more drag when paddling.

Sounds like a problem kooks deal with, I know. Any experiences/ reports might help with loosing that title though - one day.
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