Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

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Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby browncurtains » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:48 pm

whats this Hull love about then?
in simple terms explain whats the deal, preferably by someone who knows the feel to of pumping rail to rail as well as getting vert at some point in their time......
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby ears » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:06 pm

I'm no expert (at anything) but for me the pleasure is in having a board that needs very little input.. It takes off and goes where it wants to go.. You can choose to link top and bottom turns and the speed will increase.. They beat sections as well as a log 3' longer.. They plane thru flat sections and then take off again if the wave walls up.. You can choose to do nothing and they still trim amazingly.. You can chuck them about a bit if you've got the skills but really its about big swooping bottom turns, trimming a high line and picking the moment to swoop again.. I rode my first non hulled board in about five years earlier this year and was amazed at how easily it went vert (in my mind at least) it goes way better than a hull in big onshore stuff and felt really solid in pumping winter swell, happy to take crazy late drops etc.. A hull won't want to do any of that.. But it took me a while to get my head round the fact that if I didn't put the work in the non hulled board just kind of died in all but the best waves.. Rider error for sure but not just that. Anyway, I'm back on the hulls.. Landlocked with a new liddle waiting to get wet... :-)
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby flacky » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:37 pm

I got into hulls looking for a board that would ride a certain way, even tried to make it myself. Naused it up terribly. I'm not fit enough, and don't surf enough to ride performance type boards, and to be honest could never be bothered with the boards available that needed me to put in so much effort. I had a 6'2 lost thruster that I loved, it was so good underfoot, could push as hard as I could, and it stuck, turned at will top or bottom, but such hard work. Finally spoke to Tim Mason while I was buying a log from his old shop Perfect Trim, and hulls came up as he had just started looking at them.

For me, the joy is in the simplicity. You paddle, drop, trim, you have to nurse them a little, but bend your knees, release pressure and it rises to the top of the wave as if it were floating on air, push down and you swoop back down with such a feeling... They make a sound while the boards rails cut further and further into the wave face, there's no need for pumping. It's not exciting, there's no thrill, it just feels nice.

Anyway, Here's mine. 6'10 & 9'4. Rails are beautiful. They look so simple. And having had a crack at making one, I can see where I went wrong. I would be happy if every board I own from now has a rolled bottom. The orange one is the Squire I've got. Again, rolled bottom. And again, an absolute joy to ride in small surf.

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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby da ghost » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:40 pm

Yep, flaky & ears have pretty much summed it up.

Only things I'd add (bear in mind I'm pretty new to this world of hulls)

The speed when it works is amazing.

Fin choice & positioning really matter.

Chances are you'll spend time sliding down the face on your arse every now & then especially going backside on a shorter hull.

There's some decent clips on you tube etc which will show how they work in expert hands but, from my experience, there's a learning curve issue for mere mortals!
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby browncurtains » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:14 am

am sold on the whole 'hull' influence and applications in shorter shapes
http://vimeo.com/21422208#

but yep , am still intrigued to try the feel of a mid length hull........
but i would want to be able to sink a good hard turn if the section in front allows, so reckon it would have to be a blend.
a single ? or maybe a twonzer.

Makes me think if they feel so good mid length, (and given i think most of you who have replied ride 'classic influence' ? logs too, )
why not ride a hull 9' up too, and keep the benefits? as well as cross step / nose ride etc... or are these classic hulls just to much when they get too long?

i am guessing you can get your logs to blending some of those features?
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby flacky » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:26 am

browncurtains wrote:am sold on the whole 'hull' influence and applications in shorter shapes
http://vimeo.com/21422208#

but yep , am still intrigued to try the feel of a mid length hull........
but i would want to be able to sink a good hard turn if the section in front allows, so reckon it would have to be a blend.
a single ? or maybe a twonzer.

Makes me think if they feel so good mid length, (and given i think most of you who have replied ride 'classic influence' ? logs too, )
why not ride a hull 9' up too, and keep the benefits? as well as cross step / nose ride etc... or are these classic hulls just to much when they get too long?

i am guessing you can get your logs to blending some of those features?


I've been up on the nose of the 9'4" Sam, but it never felt stable. In fairness, that's as much down to my ability. Maybe. My Hull and Sam both out run everything I've had them on if you give them the slightest bit of encouragement. If you plant yourself, they will just trim along nicely, however the sweet spot on mine is forward, where on a noserider that may stall the board to enable you to get on the nose and perch for a while. Maybe this is where the Pig shapes come in, a design that incorporates both aspects. I've seen a few Andreini shapes online that seem to edge toward this.
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby Jory » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:47 am

so assorted musings about my hull experiences here:

http://adventuresintrim.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=hull

I think it's important to clarify that there are two distinct branches of the design tree here, the simmons style planing hull a la hydrodynamica and the displacement hull developed by liddle and others. They are different craft with different feels and although related are seperate things.

As far as hully longboards go, once you put belly in the nose of a log, they get quite wobbly when you are on the nose. The yater spoon is a classic example. From my perspective there's little point trying to mix the two things. You are either in the mood for full rail bottom turns and swooping or for logging and there's no point compromising nose riding for a log or adding lots of rail line to elongate turning swooping circle on a hull.

In tiny waves the wave face is too little to get much climbing and dropping action in which is the best feeling of a hull in my opinion.

Final word. Hulls are ace in many respects but they are hard to cut back and tricky to surf properly on your backhand
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby Jory » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:51 am

p.s You will never sink a hard turn on a hull in a normal sense - they dont work like that.

Pigs are not really hulls and actually surf in a much more stop start stall trim manner, far less fluid. One of the key design elements of a proper hull is having the wide point forward of centre whereas a pig is defined by having the wide point back
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby flacky » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:53 am

This was what I was referring to.
http://surfapig.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/ ... i-owl.html

His Owl Pig. Obviously, it's a different shape. And not a Hull. Wide point, as you pointed out) is a big giveaway, but it seemed to me to be the noserider/log that I'm after being a Hull convert rather than an all out noserider which I find a bit cumbersome to surf. I had a go on a 9' thinner version of the Nineplus Don over on a nicely lined up East Coast beachie. It was actually a board that Richard had shaped for his other half, and very different to the 9'4 Don I used to own. And boy was it good fun! The lighter weight made it easier to turn, make quick adjustments on, it seemed to just cut through. Loved it. I'm toying with the idea of shaping one myself very similar, get a mate to glass it, but adding in a bit of a S Deck to redistribute the foam where I want it, away from where I don't. Of course it's a recipe for disaster, as I will also pinch the rails a bit more and blend some belly in, making it a completely different animal...

Anyway, more Hull pics. That's your old one Jory.
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby Jory » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:41 am

the andreini looks nice!

I've been getting into less portly logs recently:
Image

Almost looks sam ish eh?
Heavily influenced by Dane Peterson's boards, 9'4, 17 something nose wide point back and still 16 i the tail. greenough fin and pretty slimmed down throughout. Needs some shape to the wave and wont let you noseride out past a section too far but really nice and responsive from the nose, you can almost steer it from hanging five. turns beautifully too! It's my go to board for small fast zippy waves. i agree a classic paralell noserider feels like a lot of board in a steep wave and you dont really need a wide nose for toes over in a steep pocket!

Anyway, i digress......
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby slipslide » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:21 pm

2 types in my eyes vaquero tri plane and liddle tdh. Had a few of both. Got right into hulls for a bit and then fell out of love with them just as quick. When it all clicks there amazing but and this might just be me 9 times out of 10 in the waves I SURF there are better boards FOR ME to ride. Not Knocking and there a nice luxury board for me to ride but mine just were not getting enough use. I am a proper midlength junkie. Id recomend borrowing one if you can.

At the end of the day its different strokes for different strokes
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby flacky » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:40 pm

Just had an offer on my Squire. Don't wanna let it go now!

I'm on the hunt for a pinchy slimline noserider... If you can think if anything, shout up!

Aloha!
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby ears » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:23 pm

Jory nails it.. (as he tends to do!). I've had a fair few over th last couple if years..I've had a lot of variations mainly from andreini with dbl concave or vee in the tail and have strayed quite far from liddles original criteria.. However I've gone right back to the source and got an out and out hull - liddle pointbreaker but its never going to be a daily driver or it could be but on the understanding it won't always light up like it would in optimum conditions. I've had an andreini Sam and an owl pig and never really got on with either.. Great boards but not one thing or the other. Currently riding a larmo shaped Phil Edwards 9' x 22x 3 16.5 nose.. It's hands down one of the best boards I've ridden.. It's right on the cusp oftoo small for me at 5'11 180lbs but I just love it. Nimble, great trimmer that turns on a dime and will handle some juice.. I used to ride bigger logs but the hulls killed my interest in them as they all felt really cumbersome. This one however feels as exciting as a hull to ride but is way more predictable. Great board. Still, I'll always choose a hull if the conditions are there.. As jory says, they're ace!!
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby flacky » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:18 pm

ears wrote:Jory nails it.. (as he tends to do!). I've had a fair few over th last couple if years..I've had a lot of variations mainly from andreini with dbl concave or vee in the tail and have strayed quite far from liddles original criteria.. However I've gone right back to the source and got an out and out hull - liddle pointbreaker but its never going to be a daily driver or it could be but on the understanding it won't always light up like it would in optimum conditions. I've had an andreini Sam and an owl pig and never really got on with either.. Great boards but not one thing or the other. Currently riding a larmo shaped Phil Edwards 9' x 22x 3 16.5 nose.. It's hands down one of the best boards I've ridden.. It's right on the cusp oftoo small for me at 5'11 180lbs but I just love it. Nimble, great trimmer that turns on a dime and will handle some juice.. I used to ride bigger logs but the hulls killed my interest in them as they all felt really cumbersome. This one however feels as exciting as a hull to ride but is way more predictable. Great board. Still, I'll always choose a hull if the conditions are there.. As jory says, they're ace!!


Exactly the same reason I don't want a "traditional" noserider. I don't care that my hulls aren't perfectly suited for the waves I may be on, all boards work better on a screaming pointbreak... I just like them, and whatever board I'm on, or wave, I'll always try to slide it the way I slide a hull.

The Sam I have isn't quite what I want, too slidey. Its a tricky one, and I've just spoken to the man himself for his input on a hully-slidey-noserider.
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby slipslide » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:43 pm

I have a
yater sppon
Larry mabile eagle
Hobie Phil edwards 8ft 6
all for sale if your looking for something different

Blatant plug blatant plug blatant plug
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby flacky » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:32 pm

pm me details.
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby dogtowatch » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:20 pm

Hi Jory, please put me out of my misery and tell me what the board in the photo is/ and slipslide whats the skinny on the 8'6 Edwards, sounds interesting. Hello 'ears' sorry weve not met yet.
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby Jory » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:37 pm

If6was9 mod log by Neil Randall. He's not shaping at the mo
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby hentex » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:13 pm

Mines ready for my Maldivian adventures, lets see what the fuss is all about shall we!!.... to be continued :)
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby browncurtains » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:55 am

hentex wrote:Mines ready for my Maldivian adventures


I have seen one of these surfed in the flesh and felt its 'bladey ness'... and it appeared to in no way hold back the board and riders intent to perform 'non hull moves'...but had that flow and speed..........hentex your looks like it will go good.

so do you hit the third type of Hull?

1: simmi hull
2: displaci hull
3: modern application blend of best bits of Hulll ?

as in keep the advantages of Hulls ... the , "suspension bridge" the, 'the port" , the "The aquarium?" and the 'Motorway links'
and get rid of the lot of the rest!

or is this just Bristol?
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby ears » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:20 am

Nothing wrong with Bristol at all.. But sometimes you might wish for something a bit edgier??

That's a beaut of a board hentex however there Is one crucial difference between it and a liddle or vaquero.. The wide point is back on the universal (I believe). I was lucky enough to own a Brian Hilbers hot generation for a while.. It was a great board, litle loggier than the universal but very similar in design.. It was a super versatile board and you could throw it around off the tail and it would trim mid board really well BUT when it came to forward trim it was really tricky to get it going once you were past the middle of the board.. I just didnt have that hull feel (for me at least) i believe the vbowls is similar although I haven't ridden one but have copped a feel! I had a liddle ID with the wide point pulled back and that still had all the hull glide but turned off the tail a wee nit more, much more of an out and out hull than the HG but still a little muted.. This has brought me to the more classic wide point fwd models..

Again its horses for courses.. It's great to get a bit of hull flavour in a board.. You then either stick with it or you go after a slightly stronger flavour depending on your preference.. You either stay in Clifton or you squat a building in stokes croft, its all good.

I'd love to know how the universal goes ... It's a really pleasing shape.. Nice boards the empires no doubt!

Nice to hear from you Dogtowatch! :D ears
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby flacky » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:16 am

My 6'10.

Image

And there's the roll

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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby JoeHart » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:31 pm

Hulls = Bentley sport
Modern thrusters = Skyline

drift or look pimping, choice is yours : )
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby mister-griffster » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:17 pm

K' there's a LOT of good info on this thread - a LOT - but if you want to know the real deal of displacement vs planing and the combination of features that will work well in a board then ignore us bunch - go to the source - seasofcheese will set you right - there's a few masters in this thread but only one Guru ;)

Seriously, as far a a hull goes it's a real less is more approach - a purely zen board - you'll be amazed at how small the tolerances are in these boards and they reward you for it.

Personally I ride a 7'7 smoothie, a 7'8 V Bowls which is a reverse hull (rocker and roll reversed so the main dome is between your feet at the back of the board) and soon to be a Sam (I've also ridden an Andreini Sam, HG, Vaqueros etc). Really, before thinking on any design features I'd just think about how you want to surf - some hulls have vertical ability but for me that's not what they're really about. As Flacky says -
It's not exciting, there's no thrill, it just feels nice.
- but that's selling it short. If the potential to surf at mach 10 is not exciting then what is - you will NEVER want for speed on a hull because it has little resistance. Most boards work in 'tension' with some design feature offsetting the failure of another - the hull just doen't have that - it's all designed to work in harmony. For me they're real exciting because of how they feel - sure, the photogs shooting from the beach are never going to make you their cover shot - but what's going on in the inner experience is very hard to be rivalled. Peeps don't take drugs for how they make you look, and a hull is a full on addiction.

They let you work the full length of a wave, take of early, work the entire length of the wave, at speed, arching turns - most of my rides end now when I step of the board onto the beach - paddle out again. They'll let you take on a slack wave, will handle something punchy, and if skilled enough allow a bit of a cover up - sure you're never going to make an ariel but shit, 99% of guys busting em don't make em either ;)

As for keeping the features for over 9' - the Sam is a super fun board - lively, easy to turn, fast from the front third and cheater 5's all day on a high line - seriously last cheater 5 i had i had to go to the beach as i got cramp from assuming the position for so long. You're not gonna be perched in a full 10 on one, but you can get back and forth the tip all day.

Next hull up for me is a Yella - 2ft to double overhead and beyond and just keep cranking through the gears. Oh, and if you want late take offs and pits of doom on a hull then I've heard a flextail is the way to go - just waiting a turn to confirm ;)

As for pigs / logs / long hulls - ^ What Jory says - roll on board does not equate to hull. I love pigs, great fun logs and all my logs have widepoint back in some shape or form. I've ditched the weighty 'trad' logs totally - the thickest one I surf these days is an Elevator - Flacky - If you;re after something bladey that will noseride then either look to the aussies - what they were doing in 66' (as Jory's gorgeous board proves - based on a McTavish I believe) was bang on the money for me, and Neil turns out a nice board. Or look to Brian Hilbers shapes.

I like to surf fast with a bit of jive, feeling and connecting with the wave as much as possible rather than against it - hulls suit that perfectly for me - when you're blasting along at mach 10 and have that 'fizz' and suddenly feel the board dissappear beneath your feet - well, thats a special feeling only rivalled by being perched on the end of a pig locked in the pocket - flying!

And for those who say hulls don't turn - well those non turning hulls have certainly defined our surfing for the past 40 years ;)

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I'll post some pics of boards when i can get my act together - for now, hunt down seasofcheese - his knowledge is unrivalled!
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby flacky » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:09 pm

mister-griffster wrote: Flacky - If you;re after something bladey that will noseride then either look to the aussies - what they were doing in 66' (as Jory's gorgeous board proves - based on a McTavish I believe) was bang on the money for me, and Neil turns out a nice board. Or look to Brian Hilbers shapes.


Too late... Just as I was talking to the Cheeseman himself about something that covered all bases, this popped up on ebay. The first Noserider I really ever lusted after. Too good a price to not jump.

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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby flacky » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:12 pm

I know what you mean about the speed thing, but there isn't the feeling of hanging off the back with your teeth clenched and arse twitching like on other boards. Connected... Cliched word, but yeah... Yeah.
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby mister-griffster » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:33 pm

^ Lovely log there flackster - did it come with a deck chair for the tip :)

Yep, to paraphrase better surfers that I 'speed is nothing without control' - that's were hulls have an edge for me - pardon the pun ;)
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby hentex » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:13 pm

We need a hipster meet up with all this hull and log sex. Lets invade the fish fry!! Then we can get hard over all of it and just have a orge!
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby flacky » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:59 pm

I'm planning a trip down to Newgale possibly, or Gennith. Going to meet some mutual amigos, so you're welcome to have a slide.
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Re: Hull or Grimsby in disguise?

Postby VillageIdiot » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:59 am

Maybe someone should organize a hull surfing anti-competition. Whereby, the less you do the more points you get.
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