Duckdive

Any questions about learning to surf, or general questions about equipment, technique or improving your surfing.

Duckdive

Postby Cheese Monkey » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:13 pm

Right, this is doing my head in now. I just cant get the hang of it, and as a result I'm usually fucked after a paddle out or when the set that you didnt spot rolls in.

I'm pushing the board down, but half the time I just seem to more raise myself up off the board :roll: . When the front does go under properly and my head follows it I just cant connect with my knee/foot they just go all over the shop. 90% of the time I get sucked back. On a 6' fish.

Feel like if I nail this I'm gonna have more energy left to get more waves and stay in longer!

Any advice appreciated :-D
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Re: Duckdive

Postby DrJive » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:35 pm

Identical problem in every respect, even surf a 6ft fish :shock:

Have started getting through smaller <4ft waves but still get raped by anything bigger. I don't normally lose control of my board in bigger stuff, but I do get sucked back bloody miles!

I often watch other surfers techniques in the water for pointers. It's definitely all about the technique, I even see a few out of shape surfers that can still duckdive with ease. I just cant seem to perform the full manoeuvre in one go, I tend to slide up the board get the nose under at an angle and then get sucked back by the tail. I guess I need to go deep rather than through but fuck it's hard to master.

Surf clean reefs, it's not such an issue.
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Cheese Monkey » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:14 pm

Clean reefs would be nice, but the only one I know locally is a bit banzai for me. Last time I tried I ended up sucked over the falls, razzed on the barnacle covered rocks and bleeding :-| . Nice channels and rips are my saviours atm at small beaches, but larger stretched out beach breaks just tend to be a nightmare. I think the same is happening for me, the tail is ending up getting caught
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Black » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:31 pm

You've got to connect with the foot, that's what drives the board down 'n' forward once you're angled right from the pushdown. Having said that I'm pretty crap too and the more tired you get the worse it all goes! A fishy or wide board you may need to angle (I push down more with my right arm to sink the right side first) to get it sunk down and that makes getting your foot on it slightly harder too. Also make sure its your leash foot pushing on the board & you can flick the other leg up to give a bit extra ooomph.
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Cheese Monkey » Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:40 pm

ok cool i'll focus more on the foot wednesday!
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Black » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:00 pm

Don't forget to get the timing right! Did I mention timing? :lol:
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Cheese Monkey » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:15 pm

Lol timing is a learned art I think, I just try to get under about a second before the wave hits me, seems to be about right looking at everyone else that does it (bastards)
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Cheese Monkey » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:55 pm

Well I didnt actually properly duckdive anything, but I did practice with the foot. Think I'm getting the action now, but only got under about a foot at the most, water just went over my back at most lol. Practice practice practice eh
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Re: Duckdive

Postby StevenSickBoy » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:08 pm

I got the same problem,could someone please clarify on the whole foot thing,when do you use it and how?
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Black » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:34 pm

TBH I spent many years matching my duckdiving skills with various boards. As long as it goes over you without shredding the crap out of you then you done well. But really you need to be able to survive what you are dished out by the sea, thats what will put you in the right place on a wave.
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Re: Duckdive

Postby lorcar » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:46 pm

same issue here. BOard is 6'4'' in tuflite, i am 68kg and 181cm, so not the strongest.
I can get the nose down, my foot on the pad, but then I fail at pushing the board down and forward, and the wave hits me around my leg and trashes me
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Cheese Monkey » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:51 pm

Yeah spent alot of the time getting mullered today, worth it for the few incredible rides I had :-D .

Still not connecting with the foot, feel like I'm getting somewhere though. Improving general stength will help too methinks, if I can paddle out harder and for longer = less getting worked. Not getting shredded on the smaller stuff usually, anything 4ft+ is a nightmare


Is good not being the only one in this situation :-D
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Black » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:04 pm

Ok I'm not sure what else to say except that experience is your best route - get in there and try. Thinking about it (not done that before) its really the board width (inc nose specifically) that makes it difficult to duck dive & most boards beginners use are wide, so it makes it a more difficult problem. I guess its a balance of what you can surf & what you can get out there to surf. Anyway I just make this stuff up as I go along - a bit like surfing.
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Re: Duckdive

Postby the lush » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:01 pm

Have you tried a tailpad on your board? They give you an amazing reference point for your foot to apply pressure in a forward kick type of motion. Admittedly, they don't seem to suit fish boards but you can always remove it once you have duck diving nailed. It certainly helped me when I moved down to a shortboard.

To be fair though as Black said, wide fishes are a real pain in the arse to get deep, especially through heavy whitewater, so there always seems to be a degree of backwards motion involved. As long as you make up some ground in between waves you'll make it to the lineup. Keep trying and you'll nail it.

Good luck!
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Poo Stance » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:12 pm

Didn't know where to put this so it's going in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoM3TSzE ... r_embedded

Make of it what you will. I love it. Can all relate to what's happening in and out of the water. Nothing focuses the mind like getting caught inside up against some rocks with a big set looming.
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Cheese Monkey » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:05 pm

Tail pad is a nice idea, but it seems like a bit of a sin to put one on a fish! I am getting better now, had some good practice in Gironde.

Paddled out at Lacanau in about 6' without any major beatings. Although after taking my first wave the one behind it ruined my session! Was dredging the sand as I ducked, board was ripped out of my hands like a feather, then my face was smashed into the bottom, then long hold down while seeing stars and blood :shock: . Dont think many people would of got under it cleanly, was a heavy monster :shock:

Getting one foot on is going well, finding that I have to bring my right foot up and above the board to balance it and get a bit more force down. Without that it goes to shit
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Re: Duckdive

Postby surfrat » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:25 pm

couple of tips - I learnt to duckdive big boards so they work

Keep your eyes open under water - it helps you stay centred over your board

Don't duckdive too early or you come up in the mush and get dragged back

keep you foot pushing down and connected to the board for a second or two longer than you'd think - it keeps you deep

slide hands a bit up the nose as you push down/or are underwater - helps you go further down

hold on for dear life

come up paddling - first thing before you breathe, wipe water off your face or anything, is to start paddling. especially in chunkier stuff or else you'll go nowhere. Those first few strokes get you moving out of the "sticky" water which is all swirling around where the wave just broke
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Poo Stance » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:11 pm

Never a truer word said. All great advice. Although I'll keep my eyes closed for now.
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Cheese Monkey » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:12 pm

:thumbright:
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Jory » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:20 pm

anything with a wide nose like a fish, really helps to sink one rail before the other.

that and timing and paddling like hell once you surface!
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Vince Noir » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:25 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY5O6XEV ... re=related


loads of vids on youtube


can anyone realistically duck dive a proper 6ft beach break bomb denotating 3 feet before them ?..i know if you time it right you can make it through, but once the rest of the wave is a wall of surging white water, how the hell do you get deep enough ?

i know alot of pros are using paper thin boards, but surely you can get quite deep with something 2 5/8ths thick ?.


my duck diving is the only thing hampering me in well overhead surf, and it totally drains your confidence when you know getting caught inside means getting smashed by the entire set !
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Re: Duckdive

Postby philo » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:47 pm

Yeah but every time you get smashed up you get a little bit fitter getting out to the line up, or more determined to get it right the first time. When ever i get caught inside and get smashed about i come up smiling thinking that the fucker got me this time but it wont happen again.

I am 30% psychopath tho
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Murtle's magic board » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:05 pm

I spent today trying to duck dive my egg... As I got trashed on a number off occasions I did come up smiling thinking , all this paddling must be doing some good... One day it'll all come together!!!!! I hope :lol:
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Re: Duckdive

Postby KIMBALINOS » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:32 pm

I've been suffering in silence far too long.........I too have problems with duck diving....there I've said it......group hug fellas!!! :-D ....but I've begun to love the beatings hahaha.....actually I could do with a good beating 17 days and counting how long will this flat spell last!!!!
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Re: Duckdive

Postby A.Jarvo » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:31 pm

Nice thread, I am also at this level of happy duckdiving anything upto 4/5ft but for example today at DeeWhy it was overhead on the beach break. Got out when it was clam, paddled hard for one and the wave didnt want to break.... Turned around could see 3 huge swells on there way to land on my head! Got creamed on the first and stayed off my board for the other 2, confidence took a massive hit and was in not long after. Like some of you guys said its just about experience ad trying to come up smiling!
Just curious.... can most of you guys hold your breath for a decent amount of time?? Got nailed in Byron Bay by a rogue 7/8ft last month and it really shook me up, close to being out of breath....
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Poo Stance » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:30 pm

Best thing to do when caught inside by the clean up sets is to wait it out. If you can duckdive them do it, the deeper the better. If not, look behind you to make sure no one is gonng get bashed by your stick (why you should never paddle directly behind someone - espec a longboarder), then just bail it and swim deep. You'll feel the wave pass over you, come up smiling and take the next 3-10 on the head. Eventually the set will end and you can paddle to where you want to sit.

There are situations where you don't really want to wait it out tho, if your surfing a reef or point then try and paddle for the channel after every dive under, but be mindful of surfers on waves so you don't get run over - why it is always best to paddle inside to the whitewater when trying to avoid someone surfing.

If you think your board is likely to hit someone then you have to hold onto it anyway you can. Give the person a shout though if you don't think you can make it, you may loose your board and it may hit them, or you may get rolled into them but at least they can try to avoid you.

If you are getting smashed about underwater the only thing you can do is remain calm. Panicking usually results in tensing of the muscles which will deplete your oxygen much quicker. So it's vital you stay calm underwater. Roll into a ball, cover your head and wait it out. It's unlikely you'll be under water for more than 10 seconds even if it feels like an eternity sometimes.

Only once you feel the wave has released you you can grab the leash around your ankle and tug on it. This way you know where up is and if need be you can climb your leash. Don't grab your leash before or during your nailing as the wave tugging at the board can snap a finger easily.

I've heard of big wave surfers grabbing hold of the reef and counting out (know your wave period) and waiting for wave no2 before they swim for the surface. Less chance of a getting rolled by the 2nd wave before you break the surface and I guess it's easier to conserve energy down there not getting smashed about.
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Re: Duckdive

Postby skimmer2 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:06 am

[quote="Poo Stance"]Best thing to do when caught inside by the clean up sets is to wait it out. If you can duckdive them do it, the deeper the better. If not, look behind you to make sure no one is gonng get bashed by your stick (why you should never paddle directly behind someone - espec a longboarder), then just bail it and swim deep. You'll feel the wave pass over you, come up smiling and take the next 3-10 on the head. Eventually the set will end and you can paddle to where you want to sit. quote]

Was doing alot of that the other day in big meaty surf - much easier than getting a beating - but not a good habit I know - and you have to be careful your board doesn't fly back and wop you.

Turtle rolling is very effective mostly but just don't like doing it in bigger stuff - if it goes wrong then it really goes wrong and you and your board tend to rapidly get burled around together! Rather try and time it and paddle like hell.
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Re: Duckdive

Postby koookiestkook » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:02 pm

it helps to think of the wave as a circle, half above the water and half under it. you've got to angle yourself and the board under and around the underwater half of the circle, pushing the nose down and under, and then using your foot on the tail and pulling up to get the board moving in the arc that it needs to. it looks good in my head... I find the timing harder than the technique
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Murtle's magic board » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:24 pm

That's a good way to describe it..next time aim out I will think of that... Circle :wink:
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Re: Duckdive

Postby Cheese Monkey » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:48 pm

Blimey, this has run on for a while! Had a good session today, got under a good few so feels like I'm getting better. Feels impossible to do when you're tired though, or it might just be my technique. Need to work on my foot more, been pushing with my little toe and now it hurts :lol: . Been getting the board under today, I'm finding the right timing (today at least) was to get head under just before the white water smashes you in the chops

I like the circle idea :)
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