So...is crab island doomed?

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So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Waveslider » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:56 pm

Been a while since all the publicity about the harbour development at Doolin, and looking at the online petition it seems to have ground to a halt just short of 10,000 signatures (pretty good effort, though I reckon there could definitely be a lot more).

What's the outcome of this though? I know these kinda procedures take absolutely ages but I'd love an update about the current situation...
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby rodent » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:29 pm

I'm guessing the council is looking for further information and haven't voted on the proposal yet
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Poo Stance » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:33 pm

Still up in the air it seems. Hope they manage to do the right thing by everyone.

http://www.clarepeople.com/wordp5/20101 ... pier-plan/
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby zboy » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:30 pm

imf bail out i doubt the local council have the money were ever the money is coming from (goverment or europe) hopefuly thats the case long live crab and doolin point
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby danny1 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:43 pm

as well as the council building the pier before the end of next year to draw down the funding.


suggests that the funding is already there...

I cannot find if they granted permisson yet...

(it said next monday in the article)

http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/planni ... ing-lists/

but donbeg golf course is messing with the dunes furtehr south

http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/planni ... 0-6282.pdf
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Poo Stance » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:13 am

https://docs.google.com/View?id=dc9n5q4 ... 2cgh&pli=1
The current situation is not as good as we would have hoped. The Council have provided wave modelling and altered the design of the pier, however there are two major problems: A.) The Wave Modelling was highy inaccurate. B.) The revised proposal will still have an impact on the waves at Crab Island & Doolin Point and affect surfers affect to the water.

The concerns of surfers, environmentalists and other concerned members of the public have not been addressed and have not been documented to the Councillors in the Planners Report who's decision will be made on Monday Dec 13th.

If you are a Clare local or know of any County Councillor we would urge you to highlight the importance of surfing and the waves at Crab Island & Doolin.

The Lahinch Economic Report is published on the features page of Surf Around Ireland
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Poo Stance » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:40 pm

More info here. Only just got this and it says time to act is before today :? .
Typical Irish, can't do anything ontime :wink: Need all the help they can get.

http://surferspath.mpora.com/featured-c ... pdate.html

Not looking good but I reckon it can still be saved.
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Poo Stance » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:23 pm

Well, I've just popped off an email about this to the councillors. Hopefully get a response. If you wanna do the same:

breene@eircom.net; tonymulqueenmcc@gmail.com; tommcn@eircom.net; datldo@eircom.net; jny.flynn@gmail.com; barntickfarm@yahoo.ie; sonnyscanlan1@eircom.net; pdalyennis@eircom.net; tbrennanmcc@eircom.net; mconwayw@eircom.net; mjhillery@eircom.net; richardnagleccc@eircom.net; michaelkellyccc@eircom.net; jarkins@eircom.net; josephcooney@eircom.net; hayespatrick@eircom.net; burkedromaan@gmail.com; ppfitzgerald@eircom.net; mlbegley@eircom.net; cathalcrowe@yahoo.ie; christophercurtin@eircom.net; oliver@ogarry.com; kellypj@eircom.net; patkeanemcc@eircom.net; bill.chambers78@yahoo.co.uk; crowesixmilebridge@centra.ie; tony@tonymulcahy.com; pamacc@eircom.net; pjryansons@eircom.net; patmcmahonccc@eircom.net; cllrgerardflynn@eircom.net

Even if you just write you are a surfer, you spend money in Ireland when you surf there and you don't want the wave to be damaged it don't matter. As long as they get an idea of how many people are against this it would be better than nothing.

Here's what I spieled off:

I have emailed you all because recently there has been much discussion regarding the proposed development of the pier facilities at Doolin. I hear there has now been a couple of meetings to determine the fate of the proposals and the scheme itself.

I shall keep this short as you are no doubt all very busy people. I would like to draw your attention to the information on this website, http://surferspath.mpora.com/featured-c ... pdate.html concerning the Pier. I am a surfer myself who has visited the site in question. I fully intend to do so again as soon as possible, there are many others like me.

My request to you is to look at the information presented with an open mind and try and judge if the cases presented by all parties are accurate and viable and whether they serve the best interests of all parties for the betterment of the local area and Ireland as a whole.

Many people travel to Ireland to surf. The waves that are under threat are as iconic to a surfer as locations like The Eiffel Tower and the Leaning Tower of Pisa and Pyramids are to travellers the world over. These are the draw cards for these areas much like Doolin and Crab Island are for surfers to Ireland. The knock on effect of removing these locations of historical and natural importance would be felt throughout the local economy, not just at the entrance gate. Shops, hotels, restaurants would all loose trade if any of these were torn down. The same effect will be felt on the growing Irish surf industry and the local businesses it supports if Ireland were to be seen to be removing it's most precious landmarks.

Although you may not recognise an Island, area of rock or a surf location as being a huge tourist attraction, the numbers of surfers and surf tourists are increasing year on year with figures to prove this. Once the damage has been done to this location it will be irreversible so please consider carefully. You can rebuild The Eiffel Tower but it has taken nature millennia of erosion to sculpt the rocks to be just right so a world renowned surf location to emerge.

Can I also draw your attention to: http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/public ... n-5749.pdf

Pg52 as labelled:

"Draft North Clare Local Area Plan 2011-2017
DOOLIN:
....
2. To provide for the development of a diverse tourism product which
offers potential to expand the tourism season to provide year-round
employment and economic activity."

I would highlight that surfing is a year round activity. Yes there are seasons, however, Ireland is ideally situated next to one of the most active Oceans for storm and surf development to see quality surf all year round. As such the level of tourism is unique in that the industry does not rely fully on seasonal traits.

Thank you for listening and I hope I have highlighted the need for accuracy and careful consideration to this project.

Please contact me if you have any other questions. I thank you again for you time.
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Poo Stance » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:42 am

Does anyone care about this at all?

Got first response to my email:
Consultation period has been extended.

Image

EDIT - and now this news today: http://www.surfertoday.com/surfing/4577 ... point-wave
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Black » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:59 pm

Your email is superb! I'm convinced :P
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Craivold » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Nice work by anyone who mailed and signed the petition. Bit more info on it here - http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/council- ... 39308.html

And this quote seems encouraging
Cllr Martin Conway (Fine Gael) said that "it is vital that we do not lose the €6m in funding, but also making sure that the integrity of the waves are protected"


No doubt the new plans will have to be scrutinised when they are submitted though.
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby ATTMFKH » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:18 pm

Nice one Poo - eloquently put...... got this t'other day off Neil Clooney

Hey,

I would like to thank you for participating in the surfer survey.

The Lahinch Area Economic Report has been published here.

We are fighting hard to save the waves at Crab Island and Doolin. The vote by the Councillors is on Monday. The planning erport prepared by the Council is totally flwaed and does not reflect the concerns of surfers.

Surfaroundireland.com have begun a news page with different surf related news, this edition has details on the Doolin Harbour situation among other things. It's called 'In The Loop'. This is a link to the first edition here.


We propose to prepare further updates of this page in the future. If you do not wish to receive any further emails in the future please drop us a quick email back.

Thanks again for undertaking the survey.

Cheers,

Neil,

Email: surf@ireland.com
Site: www.surfaroundireland.com
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby bgreen » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:36 pm

One of the issues of concern is some councilors concern that if action isn't taken then the funding will be lost as the funding required construction to be finished by a certain date.

I'm not from Ireland but the potential loss of any surf spot should be taken seriously by surfers.

regards

Bob
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby crenegade » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:19 pm

Hey all,

I havnt been on this forum much about the Crab island issue - its hard to keep up with them all!

Anyways, I just want to update ye guys.

So the Councillors did not vote on the Pier. At the meeting the County manager advised the Councillors that some members of the public were concerned that there were legal issues regading the application and the lack of public consultation. The County Manager advised them that he had sought legal advise and that they were ok to go ahead with the vote but said to show the public that they are consulting with everyone fully that it should go through the process again and advised not to vote on the pier.

So they pretty much couldnt vote on it but wouldnt admit it in public! - The application was withdrawn.

We (Crab Committee) were of the opinion that we would be consulted before the making of a new application but this is not the case. The Council have advertised a new pier application with a slightly revised design with no consultation with us regarding impact on waves, wave modelling, etc.

So the process is starting over again!

I dont want to go on and on about it, but will try get back here to answer any questions ye have.

I started a surf related update letter with different info on surfing in Ireland and overseas and include my up to date info on the pier on it. If ya want to be included in mailing list or get a copy let me know: surf@ireland.com

Thanks to all who supported the petition and surfer survey and voiced their support. We will need ye all again to try sort this out once and for all.

Neil.
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby bigfeller » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:32 pm

Neil, just keep us updated. I've been to Doolin and it's an awesome area..world class waves and very few people on them all the time I was there. Hopefully the waves will stay put. The distances involved from everywhere else on planet earth other than Craggy Island should keep the numbers down.

Why go to Indo, when you can always go to Clare?

Another Neil
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby crenegade » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:28 pm

The new pier application is available to view on the Clare Co. Co. website at http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/planning-applications/search-planning-applications/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=108010&LASiteID=0

To view the files click the 'View Scanned Files; button on that page. Files can only be viewed using Microsoft Internet Explorer.

Submissions can be made in respect of the proposed pier up to the 28th February. There is no fee for a submission and anyone can make one.

I'll try give an update in the coming days with a brief outline of the concerns for Crab Island and Doolin Point.

At first glance it appears the limited wave modelling carried out concluded there will be a 'slight' impact on waves and currents. However it seems that they did not have data for the area around Crab Island where waves are surfed and the conclusions cannot be seen as totally accurate.

Any questions just leave a reply.
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby rodent » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:27 pm

New Proposal

Image
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Ferral » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:37 pm

I cant seem to view the details without having to download a plug in... is that just my computer acting up or do i really need to download this djvu plug in thing? not wild on downloading all these extra bits of software.. always reckon they'll steall all my details :lol:
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby rodent » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:40 pm

Have to down load plug in and it only works on internet explorer :roll:
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Ferral » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:54 pm

what a pile of w*nk.. they put up the wave modelling reports in black and white so you cant actually see any of the graphs cos they just come up black. great way to be transparent in your planning process!!
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Black » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:44 pm

Also making it only available to IE users is not equal opportunity - neeeaaah!
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby crenegade » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:12 am

Another surfer has downloaded the application and uploaded to PDF at http://www.box.net/shared/k9atnxzamf

He says its 21mb in size but its another way for ye to have a look if ye cannot access the council webpage.
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Poo Stance » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:17 am

And I just cleared out that stupid Dejavu reader off my 'puter about a week ago. Typical. :evil:
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Ferral » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:34 pm

who do we make a s ubmission to? or do we email teh councillers like poo stance did?

I dont like the wave modelling report one bit. theres not enough detail for my liking and the graphs dont come out, looks like a fudge
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby crenegade » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43 pm

At this point in time its best to make a formal submission to the County Council.

The address is:

Senior Executive Officer,
Planning,
Clare County Council,
Aras Contae an Chlair,
New Road,
Ennis,
Co. Clare.


You have until the 28th Feb to submit a submission so maybe its best to see if we can get a colour copy of the wave modelling and a more informed submission can be made.
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby danny1 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 pm

In this age of social media making transparency the norm: the council trying to fudge something should be an easy target
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Ferral » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:06 pm

crenegade wrote:You have until the 28th Feb to submit a submission so maybe its best to see if we can get a colour copy of the wave modelling and a more informed submission can be made.


yes i agree, i was thinking the best thing would be to email a councillor/planning official and ask for colour copies to be made available and also to ask for a more detailed report - i'm sure one must be available.

the good thing is that bousinesq modelling (which they used) is ideal for this type of study.. so if the works been doen properly i'd have thought you can have confidence in the result
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Poo Stance » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:18 am

Had a peak at the docs the other day. And going through it now so this could be a work in progress..

Can't say I find it easy reading but some points/questions which I picked out (if anyone can confirm answer these it would be great):

The newly proposed pier has been moved east from it original location (direction of existing pier) by 25meters
The newly proposed pier has been shortened by 15meters
The ... is now parallel with the old pier as opposed to at an angle pointing towards Crab Island
This is referred to as Layout H in the plans
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Poo Stance » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:52 am

This is doing my head in. Everything I read brings up another question and it's taking ages to find what I want. Can anyone help?

There is a letter in those documents from Malachy Walsh & Partners saying that the 'original EIS screening report is still valid'.
Anyone know which is the EIS screening report?

I can see the Moore Marine Services report (which was commissioned by Malachy Walsh & P) but no mention of EIS. Am I being dumb?

That Moore report was supposed to check on the 'archaeological, historical and cultural background' of the proposed site. I remember reading the original and can't remember anything being mentioned about the location being used for surfing and I can't find anything in the contents page in the Dec 2010 revised report. But I'll keep reading...

Quite early in the Moore report is lists what the aims of the reports are. I'd think if you did want to mount a challenge to the new pier maybe use these aims and highlight how surfing may have changed the findings of this Moore report. Maybe?
Moore 'Purpose of project'.JPG
Moore 'Purpose of project'.JPG (43.04 KiB) Viewed 637 times
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Re: So...is crab island doomed?

Postby Poo Stance » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:13 pm

Oh yeah, and for sure I reckon it best to do a submission. It's easy for them to ignore emails to them. I only got two replies. But less hard when it has to be logged in officialdom.

Can I add, I'm still open as to whether the pier will have an effect on the wave.

From reading the reports (and I'm gonna try and go through them again), it seems like there will be some reflection of the wave on the bigger tides and bigger swells. It seems like there may have been a problem with the original position and more importantly the slope angle of the revetment. To counter the problems with the revetment they talk about '3 horizontally to 1 vertically'. Any ideas on that?
Moore 'revised pier and revetment'.JPG
Moore 'revised pier and revetment'.JPG (101.25 KiB) Viewed 635 times


As for the graphs. At first I was like, what the shit is all that about. Although I'm not so sure colour would do them any favours. Unless I've got it waay wrong or we're looking at different graphs. I will say that I can't read the key in the corner so don't know what values are associated with the graphs... aren't they really maps?

From what I can gather about the graphs/maps is that they show the area from above. There are three types of data shown.

- Significant wave height (shows as big blobs approaching crab and doolin point)
- Speed of wave driven current (shows very faintly around where the proposed pier will be)
- Wave surface elevation (shows the breaking part of the wave, looks like a set approaching from above)

With the report suggesting there will be some reflection (is that the right word) or rebound waves on higher tides, this is where you wanna look to guess at how this will effect the waves. If you look down the bottom left of the graphs you can see they are labelled 'Existing', 'New 1' and 'New H' so you can compare the old set up with the new ones. At this stage I'm a little worried by this 'New 1' layout when all the talk about making adjustments in light of the surf considerations is concerned with 'Layout H'. Hope it's not the council trying a fast one?

OK. I guess I should know the answer to this, but having only been there twice and only seen it break very small once. When does crab and doolin break best? If the report is to be believed and there is only backwash around high tide and bigger swells would that mean much? The way the report puts it is seems like they suggest on a combination of high tide and big swell has the biggest and noticeable effect, but what if it's just one or the other. Would that drastically reduce the number of good days?

Another thing mentioned in the report is that there is a lack of underwater bathymetric data. Which could be a concern, but in the end of the day the models modelled the 'existing' set up. So if you're happy as a surfer with what you see on the graphs relates to what you experience there then maybe the lack of bathymetric data isn't so important.

Thats all I can must for now, need a tea. Back later?
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