Surfing and the Gym?

Chat about anything surf related here - latest sessions, incoming swells, surf travel, learn to surf and more. Everyone and anyone welcome. Try to keep it friendly...

Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby ATTMFKH » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:51 pm

flippflopps wrote:
However, surfing for me, possibly as I don't get to surf points/reefs week in week out, is not really a lot of waiting followed by brief periods of high exertion. Instead, it really is a lot of paddling and duck diving to get into position, jockey for position for take off, then a quick paddle to actually take off, then a brief period of standing up, then repeat. Every now and then I get to wait around a bit and that's a nice rest, but the length of my surf isn't determined by how long I can wait for - it's determined by how much strength I have to paddle back out again and get in position.


Surf elsewhere then where's there's a zippper of a rip & surf triangles all day
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby Vince Noir » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:30 am

defever wrote:Vince, thank you for the links, they are indeed interesting articles! But I'm not so sure if you read beyond their abstracts, because err... well, you might find the articles bit of a surprise...!
.


no i havent read them fully, they arent open access..have you got access to them ? what surprises are there ? abstracts are usually pretty good at giving the key details of the research

my point was that doing fancy exercises on a gym ball doesnt translate to balancing better on a surfboard...indo board maybe, but doing an exercise on a gym ball doesnt make you better at doing that exercise on a stable surface

when you are up and riding your board generally isnt bumbing around all over the place...neither is it a squidy ball. better balance on your board comes from practice.you cant replicate the balance needed to do a fins out vertical top turn on your backhand, by doing something on a gym ball...its also pretty dangerous if you are using heavy weights.

there are some much better exercises to do for core strength ( google dragon flags)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20072059 - no changes in shoulder press ability when done on a gym ball

there are loads of papers out there investigating whether unstable training is actually any good. i cant be bothered to read them all.


lostboy wrote:Really? No improvement in anaerobic endurance? No increased tolerance to Lactic Acidosis?


should have made my post read " it does nothing for increased paddling ability", or atleast worded it to not be taken literally

I dont think it would have a major effect on paddling stamina. either you are getting in regularly enough that you probably dont need extra exercise , or you are getting wet so infrequently, that paddling fitness isnt going to be helped significantly by doing loads of triceps exercises. You may increase your ability to do more tricep exercises, but the moment you get on the surfboard, the angles at which your arms and shoulder muscles are when paddling , are all completely different to doing tricep/shoulder work in the gym

if you are somewhere inbetween getting in often and hardly at all, my opinion is, that just generally being strong and having a good CV capacity is about all you can do...if you start to train for endurance, you are likely to lose your strength which is going to affect your pop up, and how much force you can put into turns, getting speed up, etc....but it you start training to maintain your strength, then is quite likely your endurance is going to drop. you cant train for both, something will suffer

when i surfed on average almost everyday from april-september, i lost over a stone in body mass..but it was crazy how much my paddle speed and endurance went up...2x3 hour sessions, no issues at all.strength went down overall ( as a result of losing weight), but it was enough for surfing
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby Vince Noir » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:30 am

defever wrote:Vince, thank you for the links, they are indeed interesting articles! But I'm not so sure if you read beyond their abstracts, because err... well, you might find the articles bit of a surprise...!
.


no i havent read them fully, they arent open access..have you got access to them ? what surprises are there ? abstracts are usually pretty good at giving the key details of the research

my point was that doing fancy exercises on a gym ball doesnt translate to balancing better on a surfboard...indo board maybe, but doing an exercise on a gym ball doesnt make you better at doing that exercise on a stable surface

when you are up and riding your board generally isnt bumbing around all over the place...neither is it a squidy ball. better balance on your board comes from practice.you cant replicate the balance needed to do a fins out vertical top turn on your backhand, by doing something on a gym ball...its also pretty dangerous if you are using heavy weights.

there are some much better exercises to do for core strength ( google dragon flags)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20072059 - no changes in shoulder press ability when done on a gym ball

there are loads of papers out there investigating whether unstable training is actually any good. i cant be bothered to read them all.


lostboy wrote:Really? No improvement in anaerobic endurance? No increased tolerance to Lactic Acidosis?


should have made my post read " it does nothing for increased paddling ability", or atleast worded it to not be taken literally

I dont think it would have a major effect on paddling stamina. either you are getting in regularly enough that you probably dont need extra exercise , or you are getting wet so infrequently, that paddling fitness isnt going to be helped significantly by doing loads of triceps exercises. You may increase your ability to do more tricep exercises, but the moment you get on the surfboard, the angles at which your arms and shoulder muscles are when paddling , are all completely different to doing tricep/shoulder work in the gym

if you are somewhere inbetween getting in often and hardly at all, my opinion is, that just generally being strong and having a good CV capacity is about all you can do...if you start to train for endurance, you are likely to lose your strength which is going to affect your pop up, and how much force you can put into turns, getting speed up, etc....but it you start training to maintain your strength, then is quite likely your endurance is going to drop. you cant train for both, something will suffer

when i surfed on average almost everyday from april-september, i lost over a stone in body mass..but it was crazy how much my paddle speed and endurance went up...2x3 hour sessions, no issues at all.strength went down overall ( as a result of losing weight), but it was enough for surfing
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby Jake Breeze » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:02 pm

Good thread, guys. Nice to read what works and what doesn't re:keeping your surf fitness up. This is all making my New Year's rezzie a lot easier. Cheers!
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby defever » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:35 pm

Vince Noir wrote:when i surfed on average almost everyday from april-september, i lost over a stone in body mass..but it was crazy how much my paddle speed and endurance went up...2x3 hour sessions, no issues at all.strength went down overall ( as a result of losing weight), but it was enough for surfing


That's fantastic Vince, great for you! Are you back on your training to regain your lost weight and strength? And lose a stone again in April-September?

I can send you the PDFs of the articles for you to read (instead of me writing a review here) but I don't know how to attach file on this forum...
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby mountain man » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:17 pm

Vince Noir wrote:
defever wrote:Vince, thank you for the links, they are indeed interesting articles! But I'm not so sure if you read beyond their abstracts, because err... well, you might find the articles bit of a surprise...!
.


no i havent read them fully, they arent open access..have you got access to them ? what surprises are there ? abstracts are usually pretty good at giving the key details of the research

my point was that doing fancy exercises on a gym ball doesnt translate to balancing better on a surfboard...indo board maybe, but doing an exercise on a gym ball doesnt make you better at doing that exercise on a stable surface

when you are up and riding your board generally isnt bumbing around all over the place...neither is it a squidy ball. better balance on your board comes from practice.you cant replicate the balance needed to do a fins out vertical top turn on your backhand, by doing something on a gym ball...its also pretty dangerous if you are using heavy weights.

there are some much better exercises to do for core strength ( google dragon flags)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20072059 - no changes in shoulder press ability when done on a gym ball

there are loads of papers out there investigating whether unstable training is actually any good. i cant be bothered to read them all.


lostboy wrote:Really? No improvement in anaerobic endurance? No increased tolerance to Lactic Acidosis?


should have made my post read " it does nothing for increased paddling ability", or atleast worded it to not be taken literally

I dont think it would have a major effect on paddling stamina. either you are getting in regularly enough that you probably dont need extra exercise , or you are getting wet so infrequently, that paddling fitness isnt going to be helped significantly by doing loads of triceps exercises. You may increase your ability to do more tricep exercises, but the moment you get on the surfboard, the angles at which your arms and shoulder muscles are when paddling , are all completely different to doing tricep/shoulder work in the gym

if you are somewhere inbetween getting in often and hardly at all, my opinion is, that just generally being strong and having a good CV capacity is about all you can do...if you start to train for endurance, you are likely to lose your strength which is going to affect your pop up, and how much force you can put into turns, getting speed up, etc....but it you start training to maintain your strength, then is quite likely your endurance is going to drop. you cant train for both, something will suffer

when i surfed on average almost everyday from april-september, i lost over a stone in body mass..but it was crazy how much my paddle speed and endurance went up...2x3 hour sessions, no issues at all.strength went down overall ( as a result of losing weight), but it was enough for surfing



Hmmm no basically. Heavy weights not dangerous if you know what you are doing and train accordingly. As for losing strength whilst maintaining endurance, again not necessarily true if correct training done combined with v regular surfing. I surf just about every day, my weight stays the same within a few pounds and my benching/squats/deadlifts not affected. I could be lucky or just train right.
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby manbearpig » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:22 pm

Image

shake your dick off Vince this aint no pissing contest.
we all salute your gym prowess, but you do spout some utter shite sometimes.
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby briggfoot » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:40 pm

manbearpig wrote:Image


^^^ Pahaha, that's awesome.

Well we all have our opinions when it comes to fitness etc, but what I find works for me is just doing exercises that make me blow out my arse but afterwards leave your lungs feeling like they've tripled in volume.

So, stuff like running intervals, sprints, hill-sprints, banging out some press-ups running up a hill then doing a load of burpees or tuck-jumps or squat-thrusts.
The stuff that makes your legs turn to jelly and makes you feel sick.

Obviously not doing that everyday, but run steady other days, do circuits with big-lifts (deads, bench, dips as well as bodyweight stuff,) mixed in with e.g. 500 metres on the treadmill, sprints on the rower etc. Running hilly routes works your fitness loads.

When I do that consistently for a few weeks my fitness goes through the roof and I feel like I can paddle for ever with loads of explosive strength if I need it.

My SURFING still SUCKS however though :-D
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby gavtheoldskater » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:49 am

ok, i can't be arsed to read all the replies nor argue with some of them.... and screw the gym, save your money.

its really simple... swimming, swimming and swimming.

but not just a doggy paddle nor 2 legnths as fast as you can then into the jacuzzi, get in the sessions when the pool is laned and swim to a plan with front crawl.

like anything build an endurance base first. if you are new to swimming, first off time yourself over 400m. that will show you how shit you are - i was well over 10mins 18months ago when i tried (6m55 when last timed, could probably go faster now.. we'll see, being timed again in two weeks).

then go with 200m blocks x 6 or 8 and build up to 400m blocks but all the time work on technique, google swim smooth and the like, swimming is all technique.

when you can do 3 or 4 x 400m comfortably start taking the middle block as intervals at pace. 2 x 50 - 2 x 100 - 2 x 200 etc

the trick with swimming is to enjoy it, its almost zen like getting into the groove of improving your stroke technique and breathing sequence. medititive as well because you are head in the water looking down.

i really wish i'd latched onto swimming years ago, its the biggest single improvement i've ever done to my surfing. i can't surf anywhere near as much as i would like, often weeks out the water, and although my timing and technique may suffer from these gaps i can get on a board and paddle long and hard with no trouble at all and, when you get the usual dicks who try to out paddle you, i can run circles on em. actually find it quite hysterical now when people try it because i just rip their arms off.

beyond swimming anything that boosts aerobic base is good, cycling, running etc.

stand up paddleboarding, flat water, stunning summer flat day work out. head out for a 5k med pace run, you'll know you've had a workout after.. just get a free windsurfer off freecycle and a cheap used paddle, tape up the dagger board slot, and get out there. 50quid tops.

also, something i'm just beginning to understand after 46 years years, stretching and working on core muscles. you don't need no gym kit...

http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/8110250 ... y-exer.htm

finally diet... watch the booze, avoid white carbs and don't eat high fat.

so endeth the sermon!
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby Vince Noir » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:55 am

manbearpig wrote:
shake your dick off Vince this aint no pissing contest.
we all salute your gym prowess, but you do spout some utter shite sometimes.



What exactly is your point ?

Nowhere have i said anything about being fat stopping you from surfing well. I youve got something better to add to the discussion, lets hear it dickhead :roll:



@ Mountain man

messing about on a gym ball with 70kg on your back is a disaster waiting to happen when/if it pops. you might be maintaining you strength and find it doesnt affect your surfing, but thats because you get in the water a lot. This has mostly been about what someone can do to help with fitness if they dont get in the water a lot

@ Gav

Avoiding most carbs is a good idea for health in general. only things i normally have are sweet potatoes/white potatoes, and white rice (brown rice is useless, tastes crap, not particularly digestible). avoid wheat based carbs, bread, pastas etc, sugars, anything processed

dont know why you would avoid high fat. certain ratios of fats, yes, but fat in general no. its an excellent energy source, doesn't spike your insulin, and is essential for hormone production. before anyone says sat fat is bad, there is absolutely no evidence for that at all....daily mail nutrition columnists are not good sources of information
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby manbearpig » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:54 pm

Vince Noir wrote:What exactly is your point ?


each one of your replies is about you, anyone else is incorrect.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby Philshoz » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:13 pm

skimmer2 wrote:
It has taken me years to get the body and fitness that I have :D


We need proof . Don't be shy..........
http://philshorrock.blogspot.fr/
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby ATTMFKH » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:21 pm

^^ that's the thing though about all these Mens Health mags .......... ripped abs in 4 weeks, herculean shoulders for the summer ............ that's what sells the mags to gullible idiots.

it should read - ripped abs through years of watching what you eat & a strict exercise regime that will hurt like fuck
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby defever » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:41 pm

Men's Health might have just found a solution to our thread...

http://www.liquidtubes.com/indoor-surf-classes-are-taking-over-the-fitness-world.html


Vince I think you need this! "Torch body fat, build lean muscle & get a ripped core" ha

http://www.surfsetfitness.com/collections/surfset-at-home/products/the-ripsurfer-x/
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby skimmer2 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:21 pm

Philshoz wrote:
skimmer2 wrote:
It has taken me years to get the body and fitness that I have :D


We need proof . Don't be shy..........


:lol: :lol: :lol: years of neglect and ice cream.....funny tho as I got a shock after Xmas when I weighed myself and found I had put on masses.....then to find out the scales are innacurate to half a stone depending on what surface they are lying on....phew.
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby rustopher » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:04 pm

I agree with the pool shouts. I try the training programme below every now and again and it's quite brutal. Agree that 400m reps are good for paddle fitness. Also, try increasing strokes per breath (ie. 3/4/5/6 strokes per breath, then decrease again.) Good for hold downs. I've been recommended front crawl with head above water as training for the surf-specific muscles. Feel like a tool though so never do it.

http://www.surfline.com/community/whokn ... fm?id=1169

I always thought brown rice was better than white rice as it was complex rather than simple carbs.
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby gav 99 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:05 pm

hi,...crossfit works great for me and a good solid swim now and then....just thought i'd mention it,im no surf hero ...i've done lots of things everthing from muay thai &mma,taewkwondo to just swimming...and to the dreaded gym ....!!!...but at 35 now my fitness is more functional thanks to crossfit and a semi cave man diet {simple clean lean meat and veg}!..mix it up and enjoy it!!
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby insideout » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:43 pm

manbearpig wrote:
shake your dick off Vince this aint no pissing contest.
we all salute your gym prowess, but you do spout some utter shite sometimes.


:lol: :lol:
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby danny1 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:52 pm

Id love to get into swimming but I lose count of the number of lengths so the numbers game motivation doesn't work
yak yak yak yak yak yak yak
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby ATTMFKH » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:44 pm

danny1 wrote:Id love to get into swimming but I lose count of the number of lengths so the numbers game motivation doesn't work


dead easy Daniel lad - do sub 60's........ 50m against the clock , rest till it his the top then another 50m - go till yer hanging oot 8)
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby lefty » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:58 pm

cycle and paddle power exercise thing from skindogs mob does me

fug the gym...
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby 42naminori » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:56 pm

The exercise that has helped my paddling the best is pull/chin ups.
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby insideout » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:17 pm

I find that simply shaking out a good wank regularly keeps me in good shape for surfing
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby briggfoot » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:13 pm

insideout wrote:I find that simply shaking out a good wank regularly keeps me in good shape for surfing


Make sure you change hands regularly or you end up paddling round in circles!
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby Passportstamps » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:21 pm

Taylor Knox put out an awesome DVD with his trainer about strength and fitness for surfing a few years ago. I think its called "surf excersizes" and it focuses on lots of medicine ball work. Not sure how it works, I actually bought it, but never got around to watching it. Whoops. Best training is surfing or paddling.
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Re: Surfing and the Gym?

Postby Poo Stance » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:58 pm

Was hooked to this earlier. Sky chan 282 I think it was.

http://www.surfergirlworkout.com/index.html

Recommended viewing.
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