FRACKING in UK

[bakers]

its definetly the way the shale gas is retrieved is the problem. there has to be an alternate way to get the gas out other than blasting chemicals 8000 feet into the ground and literally causing a mini earthquake.
maybe we should just keep buying oil and gas from foriegn countries. if we cant get it out safely we shouldnt be getting it out atall.

[Chris F]

Sadly there is no other viable option. Do you not think if there was it would be used. Shale gas isn't like usual oil and gas deposits, which are saturated into porpous rock types and under pressure and are released when a hole is drilled into them. It needs a highly invasive method which breaks up the rock strata and releases the gas, which is part of the controversy.

[bakers]

how long do they expect the shale gas supplies to last, from what ive read in this thread, not very long?

[Kamikaze]

Its a case of, wait for the tremors to die down and try again, mad!

So you are saying we should just give up at the first sign of trouble? Every form of energy has a downside, they just need to get it right.


Coal mines have always caused tremors and ground collapses, no one runs around saying lets close all the coal mines (mainly cos thatcher beat them to it admittedly).

[waxer00]

Coal mines have always caused tremors and ground collapses, no one runs around saying lets close all the coal mines (mainly cos thatcher beat them to it admittedly).

people are saying close coal mines because of the co2 problems regardless of what thatcher did.
fracking is a completely different process from traditional mining and should be judged on its own merits or er............pitfalls

[roberdy]

BUT it doesn't seem to be the same with shale gas and fracking... why is that? Is it because wind farm is not profitable and inefficient way of extracting energy source? Is it because shale gas has alot more profit margin? Is it easier to frack than build wind farms? Is the government backing fracking more than wind farms?

No, it's because there is ridiculous amounts of money involved with it and the use of known and developed technology from the offshore industry which is delivered by Halliburton, Wood Group, Schlumberger, Baker Hughes and the major O&G Operators. They have a massive lobby with Gov, here and overseas, that's why it is preferred. Read between the lines and follow the money and you'll see the truth.

[ATTMFKH]

not 100% sure UK wide but in Scotland , Alex Salmond is raging that Labour were asleep at the wheel when there was on-shore wind farm development over 10 years ago - a perfect opportunity for our indigenous engineering / powere sector to become world leaders - what happened ? Lethargic Labour administration never supported the supply chain development required to deliver those opportunities, so we imported all our blades, turbines / gearboxes from Denmark, Norway etc......

He is not missing the boat with Off-shore Wind . Significant investment .................. only problem is it is the most expensive & subsidised kiloWatt Hr on the national grid

[defever]

Soo... money over health.

We need a new energy source; shale gas, tick.

Method to extract shale gas; fracking agreed by the government... tick.

Area of potential shale gas; I don't know the the figures but seems to be all over the UK, especially in the Midlands and Wales... tick.

Consequences of fracking; tremors, fizzy (not carbonated, radiated!) drinking water, underground spreading of chemical hazardous to health (heard of COSHH anyone?). Short / long-term health risk... tick.

Individuals / communities affected in the area due to above known hazards (whether a damage of infrastructure due to tremor or risk of well-being due to chemical exposure); as a result, increased healthcare cost and life support (disability, dole, housing, etc), decreased quality of life, decreased local/regional economy. And ultimately (but probably won't be admitted for a direct "account" of) DEATH of community...

Fracking... conspiracy to control population?! Less people, less expenditure, more resource, superior (mutant) race survive happily ever after...

I might had too much mulled wine today.

[waxer00]

You're David icke arn't Yu?

[Black]

No, I'm David Icke!
You lizard faced blood sucking alien.

[ATTMFKH]

Soo... money over health.

We need a new energy source; shale gas, tick.

Method to extract shale gas; fracking agreed by the government... tick.

Area of potential shale gas; I don't know the the figures but seems to be all over the UK, especially in the Midlands and Wales... tick.

Consequences of fracking; tremors, fizzy (not carbonated, radiated!) drinking water, underground spreading of chemical hazardous to health (heard of COSHH anyone?). Short / long-term health risk... tick.

Individuals / communities affected in the area due to above known hazards (whether a damage of infrastructure due to tremor or risk of well-being due to chemical exposure); as a result, increased healthcare cost and life support (disability, dole, housing, etc), decreased quality of life, decreased local/regional economy. And ultimately (but probably won't be admitted for a direct "account" of) DEATH of community...

Fracking... conspiracy to control population?! Less people, less expenditure, more resource, superior (mutant) race survive happily ever after...

I might had too much mulled wine today.

Paranoid Psychotic Delusions ........................................ next

[defever]

Reading back on my last post, yes I had too much mulled wine... Apologies.

So is this it? Let the government drill our land, fill it with some toxic substances and let our kids drink radiated water from tap?

I hate to hopelessly accept that fracking is the only way forward with extracting shale gas; the consequence feels far more destructible to our human kind than running out of fuel, don't you think?

Government is run by people like us, I hope they have good hearts like us, too. They too will be exposed to the health hazard caused by fracking, no? Or are they going to escape and start governing our land from a galaxy far far away...?

[Kamikaze]

I think part of the issue is that you are correct in that there is a conspiracy in the government, and that they are overstating the safety. However, by the same token there is also a conspiracy in the opposition, they are overstating the dangers by an even bigger extreme than the governments understating.

Shale gas is there, it has the "potential" to provide gas more economically than shipping it from Russia etc. However it also has the "potential" to cause environmental issues. What has to happen is that the gas companies have to mitigate these risks, and if they can't then they'll have to stop the fracking until they can. But running around saying its going to be a guaranteed environmental disaster when they've only just started a trial (or even before) is ridiculous.

As I said earlier, all methods of energy production have their risks and downsides, it's a matter in all cases of reducing them as much as possible. And lets face it all of us (including the people in opposition of power stations, fracking etc) are all using more energy, so we have to continually find more sources, these are going to get more risky as we have used up all the easy supplies.

[ATTMFKH]

Corin Taylor, Senior Economic Adviser at the IoD, and Dan Lewis, Chief Executive of Future Energy Strategies, set out the benefits of shale development in the US and examine the enormous potential of Britain’s own shale gas resources. They argue that the Government should grasp the opportunity to develop what could be a vital part of this country’s future energy mix

http://www.iod.com/Influencing/Big-Pict ... enewsjan13

worth reading ....... biased ? one an economic adviser focussed on GVA / jobs induced etc. , the other involved in future energy strategies .......

This whole sector will be heavily regulated by DECC, Env Agency, SEPA etc..... we don't live in a Nigerian delta where Shell / Govt. don't give a flying f*ck as long as the oil flows.

Will be interesting to see how the sector develops and deals with all the associated technical, safety & public perception issues. Hopefully a scientific approach will minimise all the NGO 'hang the monkey' brigade before it gains traction

[defever]

Hats off to Kamikaze and ATT for the posts.

I briefly went through the PDF document. I couldn't help thinking "this is biased, it's too well written."

Hmm...I hope they know what they're doing. I hope we don't end up in a $#!+ and have our government making public apology in 100years time...

Again thanks for all your views in this.

[insideout]

its all about who is in the shaky hand gang and who is sucking who's dick to get the approval to do these projects, ultimately so someone somewhere can make a big pot of cash and live a fancy lifestyle with nice things we will never be able to afford

[Kamikaze]

its all about who is in the shaky hand gang and who is sucking who's dick to get the approval to do these projects, ultimately so someone somewhere can make a big pot of cash and live a fancy lifestyle with nice things we will never be able to afford

Quite possibly. But if i get cheaper gas (or at least not have it go up so fast) they can suck as many dicks as they like.

[shackattack2]

BUT it doesn't seem to be the same with shale gas and fracking... why is that? Is it because wind farm is not profitable and inefficient way of extracting energy source? Is it because shale gas has alot more profit margin? Is it easier to frack than build wind farms? Is the government backing fracking more than wind farms?

No, it's because there is ridiculous amounts of money involved with it and the use of known and developed technology from the offshore industry which is delivered by Halliburton, Wood Group, Schlumberger, Baker Hughes and the major O&G Operators. They have a massive lobby with Gov, here and overseas, that's why it is preferred. Read between the lines and follow the money and you'll see the truth.

Word

When they allow us to utilise the Torus we will have free energy...far out

Anyone heard about Tesla?
http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2008/01/ ... supressed/

[defever]

Starting sound like Freemasons and Illuminati are "secretively" involved in this...

[shackattack2]

It's all economics

[defever]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21073263

Most likely jumping to the conclusion but err... is this usual?

[ATTMFKH]

http://www.moorlandschool.co.uk/earth/i ... akefaq.htm

26/yr of that magnitude in the UK

[lefty]

the fracking game is down to the peak oil problem.

weve passed a point in oil consumption now where we have passed the peak in the amount available againts the constant growth in demand.

it was never gonna last forever and we're moving too fast a pace to slow down on comsumption. fracking isnt the answer. not for the people that run the show of course. its a quick fix solution for them. but its very bad for the planet.

fracking is a fine example of how far out of balance we are with nature and the planet. i aint no hippy nor do i wear a tin hat but the facts and figures tell us everything we need to know. the peak oil issue has been put in front of goverments worldwide from as far back as the 60/70's. greed has stood in the way of anything realistic being put in place as a viable solution. like shackattack says its all about economics.

[lefty]

i like this quote...

“War is a continuation of politics by other means.
Politics is a continuation of economics by other means.”
-Karl Von Clausewitz

[Poo Stance]

Talking about shale in the budget.

Looks like they want quick expansion of this industry.

Just mentioned planning permision granted for Hinkley Point Nuke plant.

[Chris F]

the fracking game is down to the peak oil problem.

weve passed a point in oil consumption now where we have passed the peak in the amount available againts the constant growth in demand.

I agree with everything you have said apart from this. We haven't reached it yet, but may do in the next 10 years unless there are major changes. Fracking is just another way of people wanting to make money exploiting limited natural resources.

[ATTMFKH]

Supply & demand on the oil front ............... like DeBeers & diamonds , keep it in the ground, the price goes up !

Big finds, so the rumour mill says, in the Scottish West Coast waters & west of Shetland.

[Chris F]

Yup

Amongst other places worldwide. You will know when we hit peak oil; prices will go through the roof (you think it's expensive now!).

[lefty]

the fracking game is down to the peak oil problem.

weve passed a point in oil consumption now where we have passed the peak in the amount available againts the constant growth in demand.

I agree with everything you have said apart from this. We haven't reached it yet, but may do in the next 10 years unless there are major changes. Fracking is just another way of people wanting to make money exploiting limited natural resources.

truth is, regardless of our sources which define our opinion neither of us know if we've peaked yet or not, or how close we are to doing so. In my opinion you'll see big changes in the next 10 / 20 years but it'll be too late for anyone to fix the problem. whats taken cant be replenished. we should have started making changes back in the 60s / 70s when scientist tried telling the powers that be that the oil wouldnt last forever... no doubt there are alternatives ( not nuclear ) but they aint gonna not use the oil with the amount of money they make from it. theyll rinse mother nature and then move onto the next thing.

fruit & veg in the supermarket will become seasonal again, like you say oil will be so expensive itll effect prices in shipping food from overseas. people wont be able to pay the prices, demand for what was originally an out of season product will become that very same thing, seasonal. local farming will benefit as itll be cheaper to buy locally. so its not gonna be all doom and gloom.

so yeah, in regards to your last post chris. relocalization will be the answer to the initial oil problem. further on than that, who knows...?

[Black]

so yeah, in regards to your last post chris. relocalization will be the answer to the initial oil problem. further on than that, who knows...?

Further on we create the future, what do you want?