Coldingham Bay

[H3X]

Alright folks, I'm seeking some help from my fellow surfers and friends.

My local beach's cafe is currently facing demolition via the local council you know, the ones that clearly care so much about the community. The cafe has been around a long long time long before i was around, I've used and visited it as long as i remember.

Please take a few seconds to read the following link and if you would not mind sign the petition against this madness.

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/k ... beach-cafe

Cheers guys n' gals.
Ryan.

[skimmer2]

Was reading a wee bit about this and not really sure what the story actually is. The petition states that it is all about the owner being asked to sign a three year lease instead of a 10 year lease from the Council. I can see why he doesn't like that....but then the Council might have their reasons for not wanting to tie anyone or the current owner in for 10 years? Also, I understand the owner has refused to pay the expected rent to the Council for a number of years too. If you were a Landlord then you'd want to evict the person not paying the rent wouldn't you? However, am I right to say that the cafe owner pays around £600 a year? If so, that is peanuts for a rent for a year's worth of business but of course if they ain't making much money from it you can see why he won't want to pay twice that which is what the Council is after.

If anyone can explain it all that would be good.

[danny1]

Aye let's have the full story eh?

[H3X]

Hey thanks for the interest, not been active the past few days.

Well the story you know is correct to an extent but looking closer its quite clear why you’re not willing to pay 600 pound a year to run it, There are three members of staff that work it over the summer so that’s three people you need to bear in mind your paying wages to on top of that. The seasons your able to be open in is extremely limited as well (being in sunny Scotland and all) The cafe has a turnover of 1300 per year once wages come off of that your making close to nothing anyways, what’s the point?

The point is everyone does it for the community there is no way the owner can spend 30000 on there and expect to make it back any time soon because quite clearly he can’t, he has the community at his best interests and that’s the way it should be.

Cheers for reading.

[skimmer2]

Thanks - if you have a turnover of £1,300 then I can see why you can't pay around the same in rent! Good luck - I signed your petition.

[H3X]

Thanks alot my friend, highly appreciated.

[danny1]

Is this council owned? Ie owned by the public?
My opinion is that councils should maximise revenue to maintain services.

If the fella wants the cafe he should be turning over way more than that.

That space can serve the public better- is he the man to do it?

He shouldn't be whinging he should be grasping the metal and turning over a decent profit and employing twice that many


Sorry but councils are going to be changing a hell of alot the coming years And I applaud them if they can increase revenue

I realise there's more to value than money... If this petition can demonstrate social capital then I'll change my opinion... But is this about protecting somone who is preventing realising the value of a community asset ??


Discuss....

[danny1]

Actually I think the council have to negotiate- have they said what they want to do with the space?

[skimmer2]

Danny - I agree with you that there's still alot that isn't clear in all this....and the various relationships of the people at the hotel and cafe....trying to piece it all together from various cuttings is pretty crap. The impression I have formed from my limited knowledge is that the council probably either reckon they can make more money from it via different owners or the place just isn't a viable option full stop so better to get rid off their books. However, the folk running it seem to be doing their best and the potential for income probably isn't that great in their experience. Seen this happen in a few places.

By the way - do you work for a Council by any chance?????


http://www.itv.com/news/border/story/20 ... emolished/

[Chris F]

I find it hard to believe it only has a turnover of £1,300 per year. Even if it was only open 6 months of the year (which I don't think it is?) that works out to £7 a day??

[Matt Rose]

It doesnt have that turnover.

The cafe has a turnover of 1300 per year once wages come off

What are the wages, how many staff, overheads etc, its about as clear as mud?

[H3X]

Cant be sure what the plan is with the plot of land, the building its self is not owned by the council just the land so the current building is to be tore down. Chances are a spanking brand new brick building with a sit in cafe will sit in its place.. We've only saw this happen too many time around other beaches which will clearly look stupid as there are about 40 huts along the beach this fits in perfectly with the scene. Not to mention people goto the beach to sit on the sand not in a cafe.

We'll i dont exactly know how much the pay is im going to guess minimum wage, 3 members of staff.

Its not open 6 months a year thats for sure, its a small beach, Tiny. Your lucky if there has been 2 months this year when its not been raining, aka have people at the beach.

[skimmer2]

The Council won't build a new building unless they think there is a definite market there to tap into. If they think it is viable to knock the old cafe down and build a better one then they will put it out to tender to see what best return they can get...standard public procurement rules.

Just not sure if there is a viable number of visitors there just now to warrant a new building...but that's coming from someone who is only guessing.

[H3X]

Also before the argument jumps back onto myself for mentioning its not open 6 months a year I should mention the beach is quite out of the way Coldingham is a tiny town I've surfed there pretty much the whole year and during winter there were surfers and the odd 1-2 people watching, during wet summer days there was no one there other than the surfers and people out walking.

There would be no profitable reason to be open on such days.

On the lines of profit, its not necessary to be making a killing, its locals that own the place and run the place of they are happy they are not at a loss and visitors are happy with the great services they provide, is that not all you can ask for?

[skimmer2]

Also before the argument jumps back onto myself for mentioning its not open 6 months a year I should mention the beach is quite out of the way Coldingham is a tiny town I've surfed there pretty much the whole year and during winter there were surfers and the odd 1-2 people watching, during wet summer days there was no one there other than the surfers and people out walking.

There would be no profitable reason to be open on such days.

On the lines of profit, its not necessary to be making a killing, its locals that own the place and run the place of they are happy they are not at a loss and visitors are happy with the great services they provide, is that not all you can ask for?

Think you have answered one question yourself - the Council ain't going to build anything with few visitors going there.

Other question is why not simply use St Vedas instead of the cafe?

[H3X]

Well they can’t exactly leave the plot with nothing on it surely, there has to be a good reason for the recent events.. The 3 year lease to wait out until they have a bit more money?

St vedas is up a hill it’s as close as it is, it’s not right on the beach front, it’s just the pure principle of having a beach cafe on the beach for the past 100 years keeping locals and tourists happy, soon it won’t be because someone’s decided they want more.

[danny1]

I don't work for a council. I have in the past. I've a great interest in public resources.

[skimmer2]

Looks like they want the owner out for non payment of the going rate......can see a mobile burger unit in its place!

http://www.berwickshirenews.co.uk/news/ ... -1-2468593

[danny1]

What an idiot. And there's been a whole online campaign with no mention of the truth. Thevinternet can be shit sometimes.

Skimmer you smelt a rat from the start

Original poster did you know about this or we're you hoodwinked?

[swiggy]

Doesn't say he hasn't paid, just that he won't agree to an increase. Thats not the same as not paying...

[H3X]

I dont really understand why hes a rat, i mean the way i see it is hes spending his own money for the communitys benifit if he pays anymore rent because hes the one going to be out of pocket.

[H3X]

Also sorry for double post but yes, I knew there had been times when hes not agreed to increase his rent and i fully support that fact.

[swiggy]

Yeah I'm not quite sure what the rat is here, the article doesn't really say any more than what H3X said, theres no unpaid rent or anything, he just doesn't want to agree to paying more, which makes sense from his point of view, not sure what makes him an idiot here danny.. I'm not sure its that easy to double revenues, especially with all this economic downturn going on, easier said than done. I have sympathy for small business owners who are struggling to make ends meet, I know quite a few, just look around how many places have closed..

[swiggy]

Maybe I am reading a different version of the article to the one you have read danny

[skimmer2]

I think there are good intentions and local (and other visitors of course) loyalties to a place people have obviously enjoyed for a long long time and maybe the harsh realities of Council's needing to maximise their revenues or cut back is hitting.

I do hope they get it sorted so that there's something there for folk but I just can't help thinking there's more to it here which only those directly involved know. Problem with e-petitions is that Council don't give a stuff about them as 80 per cent or more are signed by folk who just have no idea what they are signing.

Keep on asking the question - why on earth would a COuncil invest anything more in it when you have a surf shop/hotel catering for surfers and visitors a few yards up the road.

Also sounds like the Council are to blame for keeping this going - if they've been unhappy about the owner not paying a "fair amount" (or whatever they said) then why didn't they take action all those years ago? It's all stuff like this that none of us will know - all the nitty gritty is between the folks at the centre of it.

Saying again - it's a shame when small community type businesses are squeezed out but the way this has been portrayed was that all of a sudden the Council have decided to demolish the place and I'm sure this argument with Council and owner has been going on for years....it has just now come to a head and the owner has resorted to a campaign as a last resort.

I could be totally wrong of course and talking oot ma erse!

EDIT: Some E-petitions can do some good actually depending if they are from a very mixed group of people - which I imagine this one is. ANd they are a central point to help stoke PR around.

[swiggy]

What are the council investing it? The article said the owner has put 30 grand into the building, no mention of council investment

[skimmer2]

What are the council investing it? The article said the owner has put 30 grand into the building, no mention of council investment

The chap who posted was saying something earlier about the Council maybe building another something or whatever there if they demolish the old cafe. Maybe that is just rumour or guessing...canny see it myself. As you say Swiggy - looks like the Council have just taken rent for the spot.

Think I'll stop speculating now......doesny get you anywhere.

[danny1]

I think he's an idiot for not agreeing to
Pay the going rate

For not being able to make it a going concern

And for encouraging wasted effort in an online campaign

If he can only make a few grand outta that spot I say give it onsomeone who can do more

[H3X]

I don’t see why everything has to revolve around profits and money, sure today in life it does and it’s sad.

Also, he would be an idiot for paying the going rate as he would not be making any profit to support the business. The online campaign has nothing at all to do with the owner either, it was made by someone else a member of the public who can see how important the cafe is to the beach its self.

You're saying give it to someone who can make more, what exactly are you talking about here.. You’re not going to make more out of a cafe on the beach its busy when its nice.. The only way there is going to be more profit is if you turn around and turn it into electronics shop.

Quite clearly someone else can make more money out of it, with a lot of risk. I mean the cafe could bring in disposable bbq's meat eggs pans on you go people would buy all of these things on a beach. However what happens when you have 2 weeks of no swell and pissing rain like we've had this year so many times, it’s all ruined.

The cafe is sentimental to many locals and the owner is making a profit but from a business sense, if he pays less rent, he makes a profit.

[danny1]

At the end of the day mate - we are in a deep deep recession .

Councils have to cut as their funding dries up.

If you want public money to subsidise a beach hut , rather than be spent where it's needed , like on care homes then sign te petition.

Sorry to get bigger picture on your ass but councils are gonna prob have at least another 10 years of cuts... So no room for sentimentality unless you pass the burden to the private sector