FRACKING in UK

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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby lefty » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:40 pm

Black wrote:
lefty wrote:so yeah, in regards to your last post chris. relocalization will be the answer to the initial oil problem. further on than that, who knows...?

you're talking shit lefty...





fixed :wink:
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby Chris F » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:36 am

lefty wrote:truth is, regardless of our sources which define our opinion neither of us know if we've peaked yet or not, or how close we are to doing so. In my opinion you'll see big changes in the next 10 / 20 years but it'll be too late for anyone to fix the problem. whats taken cant be replenished. we should have started making changes back in the 60s / 70s when scientist tried telling the powers that be that the oil wouldnt last forever... no doubt there are alternatives ( not nuclear ) but they aint gonna not use the oil with the amount of money they make from it. theyll rinse mother nature and then move onto the next thing.


I wasn't disputing anything you said before, or have said now, apart from your statement

weve passed a point in oil consumption now where we have passed the peak in the amount available againts the constant growth in demand
which is defined as "Peak Oil", and I said we aren't there yet. Everything else we are in agreement on.
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby Black » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:01 am

lefty wrote:
Black wrote:
lefty wrote:so yeah, in regards to your last post chris. relocalization will be the answer to the initial oil problem. further on than that, who knows...?

you're talking shit lefty...





fixed :wink:

:lol: No I didn't mean that, just that we should try to work for the future we want.
Never growing old together...
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby lefty » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:57 am

all good black :-D


just out of interest and by no means to argue chris, apart from oil prices not sky rocketing what makes you believe we haven't reached peak oil yet ?
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby waxer00 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:42 pm

what about rapeseed oil and it`s multifunctional benefits........................oh and(here`s the real reason for the this slightly off topic post) do you think that most people involved in the rapeseed oil industry sweat profusely!!!!.......................................................come on give me abreak................pwease! :-(
i`m struggling here!










disclaimer:i don`t think that joke warrants it`s own new thread,so i hyjacked this thread
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby roberdy » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:11 pm

lefty wrote: peak oil yet ?


No such concept as peak oil anymore folks, generally seen as a fallacy in most operator/producer groups, we keep finding more and developing technology to produce tight gas and unconventional plays. Global supply right now has enough with current proven reserves to keep us going for 63 years allowing for projected growth (figures from 2011 I have been looking at) and that doesn't take into consideration the vast volumes of "stranded" hydrocarbons that are just uneconomic to bring to market right now.
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby ATTMFKH » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:05 pm

^^ hence the old Texan saying , 'the best place to find oil is in an oil well' ..............
Are We Too Deep ...............
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby defever » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:59 am

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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby ATTMFKH » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:03 pm

^^ great film 8)
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby lefty » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:44 pm

roberdy wrote:
lefty wrote: peak oil yet ?


No such concept as peak oil anymore folks, generally seen as a fallacy in most operator/producer groups, we keep finding more and developing technology to produce tight gas and unconventional plays. Global supply right now has enough with current proven reserves to keep us going for 63 years allowing for projected growth (figures from 2011 I have been looking at) and that doesn't take into consideration the vast volumes of "stranded" hydrocarbons that are just uneconomic to bring to market right now.


this conversation would be better in person and a bottle of rum but anyway :) you say proven reserves to keep us going for 63 years. isnt that peak oil ? and what happens after that, once its gone its gone no ?

wouldnt the powers that be want us to beleive peak oil is a fallacy. id certainly write a fancy paper saying so if i was making plenty of money from the stuff...

i dunno, after what ive read from various unrelated sources and joining a few dots im more likely to believe peak oil has either passed or is going to. the biggest producers of oil saudi arabia are drilling offshore now, why ? to meet demand or because inland its running dry....?
i kinda thaught it was common knowledge and accepted that the oil wont last forever. more a matter of when and how much is left...
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby roberdy » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:32 pm

lefty wrote:this conversation would be better in person and a bottle of rum but anyway :) you say proven reserves to keep us going for 63 years. isnt that peak oil ? and what happens after that, once its gone its gone no ?

wouldn't the powers that be want us to believe peak oil is a fallacy. id certainly write a fancy paper saying so if i was making plenty of money from the stuff...

i dunno, after what ive read from various unrelated sources and joining a few dots im more likely to believe peak oil has either passed or is going to. the biggest producers of oil saudi arabia are drilling offshore now, why ? to meet demand or because inland its running dry....?
i kinda thaught it was common knowledge and accepted that the oil wont last forever. more a matter of when and how much is left...


Ahhh, way too many things I would have to get into to explain the realities of the global hydrocarbon disposition mate and yes you can drink the rum, I'll have a dram...

Just to answer the point about peak oil though; the energy industry categorises deposits as P1, Proven, P2, Probable and P3, Possible. As more hydrocarbon deposits are discovered, explored, appraised and move through the classification, so the global volume available changes, as demand grows and (sometimes) contracts so the concept of peak oil and when it was is or could be will change too.

Take for instance all the unconventional deposits now being opened up, 10 years ago horizontal and directional drilling was not mature enough and the market not deregulated in the US enough to exploit these possible reserves, now it is and the 2011 US dollar price for gas (barrel of oil equivalent) was somewhere around the $3 mark compared to about $11 in the UK and $12 in Spain where we have highly regulated markets, the main source is from Russia and we are not yet picking up much of the emerging global market for LNG.

Also, as techniques improve so does the recovery factor on existing wells, this means more can be extracted potentially allowing and increase in reportable reserves.

This is just the tip of the story, suffice to say that tight gas plays like shale and coal seam gas may well hold trillions of cubic meters of natural gas, and that which comes from coal seams is usually very clean and methane rich, which is the good stuff. These reserves will be extracted using fracking, depth and proximity to the water and local legislation will dictate (somewhat) how they are developed though. I think it will be a long time before we see it on the scale of the US in Britain though.
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby ATTMFKH » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:48 pm

show me the money ................. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... e-gas-boom
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby Chris F » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:46 pm

roberdy wrote:Just to answer the point about peak oil though; the energy industry categorises deposits as P1, Proven, P2, Probable and P3, Possible. As more hydrocarbon deposits are discovered, explored, appraised and move through the classification, so the global volume available changes, as demand grows and (sometimes) contracts so the concept of peak oil and when it was is or could be will change too.


Looks like FRAM development has just slipped down in that classification.


http://www.epmag.com/Production-Field-D ... Sea_113115

Someone is going to have to do some serious explaining!
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby defever » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:16 pm

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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby Philchapman » Thu May 16, 2013 7:54 am

Just watched "Gasland" last night. Oh boy are we ever fucked. Yes those chemicals will end up in the water supply. Everything ends up in the water supply eventually. That was the point of the film wasn't it? To those worrying about the "lights going out"... better to have a bit of dark and still be alive than die a horrible slow death by Cancer, chemical poisoning, etc. and royally fuck up the basis of life on earth (water).

"The only way to comprehend what mathematicians mean by infinity is to contemplate the extent of human stupidity" -Voltaire.

If anyone thinks that "we" are going to profit from Fracking, then I think you're mistaken (Oh, but maybe our bills will drop by a couple of pence a year?!).
The only people who are going to profit are the energy companies, and global pharma. (There's going to be an awful lot of sick people). Energy prices will keep rising, profits will keep getting more and more obscene for these companies run by non-human beings. Why?.... because we have let them get away with so much already. What these companies are doing seems like mass murder to me. Every year we are exposed to more and more harmful chemicals. Every year Cancer rates rise, and we all stand around scratching our heads and going "I wonder why that is?". What a bunch of dumb apes we are (echoing waxer).

"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" -Rotten.

Okay, rant over. :oops:
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby Chris F » Thu May 16, 2013 7:59 am

Wise words phil, can't dispute one of them.
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby defever » Thu May 16, 2013 8:08 am

Yes, sir. That's how I felt when I watched it few years ago. But I'm sure some bits are fabricated, a film maker doesn't make a film unless the story is profitable (over generalisation, but quite likely?).

The drilling company is claiming that yes, the chemicals are hazardous to health and environment (!!), but if the drilling and excretion of the gas is properly regulated (i.e. non-permeable wall structures down the whole and whatever), then it is perfectly safe. BUT WHO REGULATES THAT?! Apparently none, there's only a "guideline" on how it should be regulated. Guidelines are merely "guides", not "enforcers"... oh my.

There's a threat in Sussex / Surrey area of our land at the moment. Drilling companies are encouraged by the government to test out drilling in these area to assess the potential benefit... It's all over the local news. Brighton & Hove (I think backed by their city council) is very active on making its city "fracking free zone". This is very moving because we haven't lost our souls yet.
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby Chris F » Thu May 16, 2013 8:12 am

If they were doing it properly a 3rd party regulator should be involved who checks all the design, equipment and operations are done in accordance with guidelines. Like we do in the offshore O&G industry.
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby defever » Thu May 16, 2013 3:26 pm

Let's hope so Chris, let's hope so...
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby Chris F » Thu May 16, 2013 3:30 pm

I would have thought the HSE would insist on it, and I would hope they would be bound by the same Offshore Industry Safety Case Regulations, as they are essentially drilling for hydrocarbons, just onland.
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby roberdy » Thu May 16, 2013 4:25 pm

I was at a bit of a meeting/get together last week for people involved in resources consulting in the UK, there is a general expectation that the HSE and other .gov bodies will heavily regulate all onshore activities around fracking tight plays for hydrocarbons in the UK. Expected it will be worse/harder to get licenses on mainland europe too. Unlike the US we don't have that much wilderness or lower populated areas to "play" with and we are generally more environmentally conscious about where we stick holes in the ground.

However, whilst it cannot be denied that we do still have significant reserves of coal seams and shales that could be explored and possibly developed, the management of it is going to be clouded by emotion and that will likely retard any economics based development.
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby roberdy » Thu May 16, 2013 4:30 pm

defever wrote:There's a threat in Sussex / Surrey area of our land at the moment. Drilling companies are encouraged by the government to test out drilling in these area to assess the potential benefit... It's all over the local news. Brighton & Hove (I think backed by their city council) is very active on making its city "fracking free zone". This is very moving because we haven't lost our souls yet.


Have you seen any geo seismic profiles of potential targets in the Brighton Hove area? Do you realise that it is possible to run a horizontal well up to 7 or 8 kilometers? I could start in Portsmouth and drill right under your house :) Maybe someone can run a hole right under that failure of a reef and cause a bit of a change to the local bathymetry....

The confusion of science and emotion will be the reason we continue to be held to ransom by the Russians for most of our gas imports until we can increase our LNG import capacity (which brings it's own material and economic risks).
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby Poo Stance » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:26 pm

just stumbled on this. not read it, not sure if credible. figured someone here my take an interest.

http://sincedutch.wordpress.com/?s=frack&submit=Search
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby defever » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:49 am

Update on fracking in UK. Midlands has "more shale than expected":

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23069499

It's getting serious.

But BBC seems to balance the pros and cons of fracking, which is quite good to inform the readers what it involves:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14432401

But a share of £100bn will be spend in conjusction with energy and transport...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23074245
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby lefty » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:28 pm

roberdy wrote:However, whilst it cannot be denied that we do still have significant reserves of coal seams and shales that could be explored and possibly developed, the management of it is going to be clouded by emotion and that will likely retard any economics based development.


after watching this, im glad of that...

gasland moive >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96AEzQYangE ( emmy winning / oscar nominated movie about the dangers of fracking )

gasland 2 movie trailer >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... zx7UXzK_z4 ( released earlier this month in america )



for anyone living in sussex...

In less than two weeks Cuadrilla, a company involved in the controversial act of fracking, will be granted a licence to dispose of millions of gallons of toxic and radioactive waste from a drill site in Balcombe, somewhere in Sussex. The environment agency has requested concerns be raised by the 16/07/13 otherwise this proposal will be granted.

Fracking has been described by an eminent scientist as the most effective way to poison a population through it's water supply. Among the risks are:

Millions of gallons of fracking fluid, pumped into the ground, containing over 600 chemicals:
25% of which are linked with cancer and mutations
37% affect hormones
40-50% affect kidneys and nervous, immune and cardiovascular systems
75% affect respiratory and gastrointestinal systems and sensory organs

Toxic, radioactive wastewater is stored in open pits and sprayed to evaporate quickly before being trucked away. This process releases lethal radon into the air which carries for miles.
60% of wells leak
Toxic fluids seeping through natural fractures can reach drinking water aquifers in as little as 3 years
30-70% of fracking fluid is not recovered and stays in the ground

Cuadrilla has licence to drill 1,200 of these wells across the Sussex Downs, not to mention the numerous substations and mile upon mile of pipeline. This is nothing short of the wholesale industrialisation of the Sussex countryside along with the irreversible pollution of our drinking water.

Please help stop this from happening by taking 2 minutes to sign this petition to the environment Agency before the closing date of the 16th of July. Every single person makes a difference and with your help we can protect our home for ourselves and future generations from the threat of greedy corporations whose only concerns are increased profits. Thank you.


petition link here >> http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Stop_t ... c=fb&pv=13
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby lefty » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:38 pm

Philchapman wrote:
Okay, rant over. :oops:



a worthy rant sir...
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby defever » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:22 pm

Thanks lefty for the above. I didn't know the sequel of Gasland was being made...

There was Horizon documentary on fracking few weeks ago, I watched it last night on iPlayer. The very Scotsman Prof. Ian Stewart presented a rather educative and balanced documentary highlighting the benefits and hazards of fracking.

I was very tempted to conclude "fracking is necessary for energy security in UK, but don't drill in my back yard"...selfish I know, but the documentary opened my eyes to some of the reasons why the UK needs shale gas, NOW.

It was mentioned before, shale gas is a huge potential for the UK's energy source, but the method of extracting it from the earth (i.e. hydraulic fracturing) is where the question is. And there doesn't seem to be an alternative method... or is there?

May be I'm justifying my defence but the evidence of water contamination seen on Gasland, was that from the first episode of drilling when, perhaps, things weren't looked after well or didn't realise the impact of drilling? May be things developed and the fracking method improved since then and the drilling plan now is "safe" for the health and environment? For example, Horizon documentary mentioned that drilling companies in UK MUST DISCLOSE their fracking chemicals where as in the US the companies could hide behind the laws stating that the chemicals are their "secret recipe" like Coka-Cola or HP sauce.

Signed the petition (thanks again lefty).

This is getting serious and more people are aware but isn't going to stop the drilling is it...
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby swiggy » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:57 pm

I think the only people in favour of fracking are those that stand to profit financially from it. I definitely wouldn't want to live anywhere near it. They get away with it here because very few people live close by in places like northern alberta (apart from aboriginal people, but it seems they have less of a say in politics here, its pretty messed up), in a densely populated country like the UK it seems insane to me that we would do it just to allow oil companies to make more money. Energy security etc. is just a propaganda term IMO, I know I don't live in the UK any more but I don't have a problem with importing oil/gas. Lower prices are never passed on to end users, BP/Shell et al just make more profit, you aren't going to get cheaper petrol or gas because of it, people who say otherwise probably work in the industry and have obvious motivations to get fracking allowed..
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby Ferral » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:15 am

I'm very very suspicious about fracking. The only reason there isn't proven impacts is there hasn't been sufficient scientific research. I just had a quick scan of an academic search engine and there wasn't much. Compared to the amount of research on the impacts of renewable energy its pitiful. David Cameron is a disgrace!
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Re: FRACKING in UK

Postby Chris F » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:20 am

Going to reduce energy bills and provide employment, is it fuck. Only thing it will do is make some people very rich and provide a few temporary jobs to already employed specialists, who will just charge a shedload for their services.

Cameron was always a disgrace, but has now redefined the word.
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