GOVE vs REALITY

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GOVE vs REALITY

Postby lewy » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:34 pm

For anyone concerned about how one man is seemingly hell bent on deconstructing an education system that operates pretty well actually - against ALL the available data and global markers...

If you have children of a school age - or coming up to Secondary school age - or about to be inducted into the new style GCSE exams - i.e. Year 8 - you really ought to watch the video and if you feel concerned about a taught curriculum that does not value - creativity, imagination, design, writing, literature, art, music, dance, drama, PE etc. please use the link to email your MP.

I have been teaching arts based subjects for 20 years and involved in Initial Teacher Training for over 15 years and I can genuinely not think of any politically driven change as destructive as the current curriculum and exam policies being presented by Gove - against all the accepted and relevant data, pedagogy, experience and evidence from the countries Gove is so keen to emulate.

Anyway - watch the video and make up your own minds...and email your MP…

http://www.goveversusreality.com/
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Kamikaze » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:07 pm

The education system needs improving, but then it always has done. Whatever they do to improve it will piss off someone, same as for the police and poor old NHS.

I notice you don't mention the ability to spell or add up though also no mention of the watering down of practical subjects and the sciences. There is far to much emphasis on the arts in my humble opinion, its all very nice if it's your forte, but I went through school hating every art/drama/music lesson and then the bastards wouldn't let do computer studies (as it was called in my day) and I was the last year to be able to study metalwork and wood work before they made it "craft design technology".


And as for gcse's you try recruiting based on those results, ffs 'single award' 'double award', 'everyone passes' 'is a C good or bad', god knows. At least with O leve's/cse's you could tell if they passed or failed.

And where the chuff did they idea of re numbering the years come from? year 8 what the hell is that.

Anyway rant over, I'm in a foul mood today, so that bit of trolling has improved my humor no end. :lol:
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Leven » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:21 pm

Kamikaze wrote:The education system needs improving, but then it always has done. Whatever they do to improve it will piss off someone, same as for the police and poor old NHS.

I notice you don't mention the ability to spell or add up though also no mention of the watering down of practical subjects and the sciences. There is far to much emphasis on the arts in my humble opinion, its all very nice if it's your forte, but I went through school hating every art/drama/music lesson and then the bastards wouldn't let do computer studies (as it was called in my day) and I was the last year to be able to study metalwork and wood work before they made it "craft design technology".


And as for gcse's you try recruiting based on those results, ffs 'single award' 'double award', 'everyone passes' 'is a C good or bad', god knows. At least with O leve's/cse's you could tell if they passed or failed.

And where the chuff did they idea of re numbering the years come from? year 8 what the hell is that.

Anyway rant over, I'm in a foul mood today, so that bit of trolling has improved my humor no end. :lol:



Agreed. Creativity is great, but it should be underpinned with a solid foundation of lifes basics. Maths/English etc are pretty fundamental, even if you're an artist. The amount of letters/application forms I see on a daily basis from degree educated individuals with huge spelling/grammar errors etc. There's no excuse really. A scary amount of people don't even know how to lay out a letter correctly....how can you leave school without knowing which side to put the senders address?!?
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Black » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:58 pm

I got an email from a teacher friend today, telling me I'd misspelt something on my website. :lol:

I consider I had a good education, my son on the other hand.... not sure what he got taught?

Edit: Sciences & Arts are relevant to all for a basic education, its called a rounded education! :wink:
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Kamikaze » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:56 pm

Whilst we need a "rounded" education, there should still be some scope for specialising in the areas that are your forte, whether it's the arts, sciences, pe or woodwork.


Another problem is that most of the teachers these days have no life experience themselves, they go to school, pass gcse's (whatever they are) go to college, pass A levels, go to uni pass degree, go to teacher training pass whatever that is. Then they are back in school teaching, less than 6 years after leaving and have never been employed in anything outside of a classroom. (mind you the same could be said for politicians)

I think this is also why they don't teach woodwork and metalwork anymore, where are you going to find a carpenter with a degree.
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Chris F » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:17 pm

Anyone who is any good at carpentry or metalwork is making a fortune for themselves and can't be bothered with the hassle of teaching!
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Kamikaze » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:18 pm

Chris F wrote:Anyone who is any good at carpentry or metalwork is making a fortune for themselves and can't be bothered with the hassle of teaching!



Not when they get old or injured. Which is why most college lecturers wind up teaching.
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Leedsol » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:32 pm

Define 'life experience'??!! is a school and schooling not as much a part of reality than working in a shipyard. Many of my mates went into a shipyard at 16 and are still there now in the 40s - have they had any more life experience than a teacher? Just playing devils advocate.

My Uni contempories went to school (many private), uni and then (often via nepotism/old school tie) into big firms earning 100k plus and making decisions that impact on workforces and manual working people. Have they life experience?

Drs pass exams from age 12 to 26 then make decisions that impact on the lives of million. Do they have life experience.

What is life experience?

Schools seem to be doing alright in my experience. State school near us has a few kids on a medical school fast track a level course. They're from normal working families.

but yeah we do need, as a country, to be making more things or developing services that people buy
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Kamikaze » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:07 pm

You learn life experience at work. Your shipyard mates are still there because they didn't fuck up, and if they did learnt from their mistakes.

A teacher fucks up and they just get another load of kids to do the same thing to the next year. Probably a bit harsh, but when was the last time you heard of a teacher being sacked for being shite at their job.

Personally I think the people that should be setting the syllabus are the employers that will be employing them when they leave school. Not Politicians, the education system, or (worst of all) the parents.
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Poo Stance » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:25 pm

Life experience is surely the lessons learned from life. As everyones life is different & we all learn different things. Be it how to speak infront of a group or respond to a crisis or anything. This in in turn makes us all different personalities, which allows for a mixing pot of ideas which has fed into our cultural evolution. This is what should be reflected in the schooling system.

I think kids should have a bigger say in what they are taught and how. Essentials should be maths, english, history, politics, economics, mechanics, computing and health. Then they should be taught the art of learning so they can repeat the process once outside of school. Art itself is something that is part of everyone. It may need nuturing but it rarely needs instigating. Maths et al do and are relevant to a functioning life. Beyond this scope kids should be free to explore whatever subjects take their fancy. Diversity and variation should be encouraged as much as dedication and specialisation. Essensially kids should be encouraged to learn a trade and a service profession. The role of teachers to guide them to which trade or profession.

Current time constrained testing should not form a basis for evaluation. It takes the onus away from the teacher and places resonsibilty on the child to ensure they have learned the relevant data.

I'm actually in favor of getting kids to work from as young an age as they want. I believe people are much more 'out side the box' creative when they are younger. Maybe from not having had the rules or structure of life repeatedly influence your subconscious decision making. As such their thought process could lead to innovative approaches to old problems. Or they could pull up some more coal too.

I watched the vid. But it didn't make much sense to me so I just spewed out my opinion. Hope you don't mind :-). Maybe some more background would help. I get that changes are happening. But what are charter schools?
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby The Hoff » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:59 pm

Kamikaze wrote:Personally I think the people that should be setting the syllabus are the employers that will be employing them when they leave school.

I find the allusion that children should be programmed to become obedient workers very depressing; a symptom of generations being taught not to think by an education system designed to do exactly that.
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Leedsol » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:41 pm

Now they want to test kids at 4! Fuck that bullshit, any parent who cares for their kid would advise their kids to totally ignore all tests at primary, at the very least...
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Black » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:09 am

I'm seriously starting to think Gove is an evil b'stard judging by today's news.
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Philshoz » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:59 am

Poo Stance for education secretary…..he gets my vote.
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Kamikaze » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:55 pm

I thought a lot (not all) of what he said made sense. Make state schools as good as private ones, what's to complain about. As long as he doesn't do it by making private schools as shite as state ones that is.
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Black » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:07 pm

Kamikaze wrote:Make state schools as good as private ones, what's to complain about.
There's so much wrong with that phrase I don't know where to begin...
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby ATTMFKH » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:10 pm

I like KAmikaze , but I like Black .................... there's only one way to find out ............................

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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Black » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:22 pm

As he's a suicide fighter we'd probably both lose! :-)
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby ATTMFKH » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:09 pm

^^ he might crash and burn before he gets anywhere near you though :?
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Chris F » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:19 pm

Black wrote:I'm seriously starting to think Gove is an evil b'stard judging by today's news.


Starting?????
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Kamikaze » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:48 pm

Baaaaannnnnnzzzzaaaaaiiiiiiiiii
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Philshoz » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:19 pm

No need to worry about him anymore………happy now?
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Chris F » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:17 pm

By Gove! I think he's got it!
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Re: GOVE vs REALITY

Postby Black » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:06 pm

Reality 1 Gove 0

His replacement...... may keep the thread going!
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