Black friday and consumption

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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Leedsol » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:11 pm

Why do people harp on about gold ffs. it has no more value than whitby black stone outside if its industrial uses and the modern economy. If it all goes to shit (it won't) then why would a piece of gold get you a bag of grain over a baseball hat to the seller's head. It's insane pseudo hippy babble by people who want to gain an advantage in an economy thereby undermining their hippy ideals. Total freaking bullshit, winds me up. Insane ideas flourish in hard times and people look to mew saviours, 1930s anyone.

if anyone is scared about advanced society breaking down then you're best of training to be a troubadour so as to feed yourself or invest in the walking dead boxset.

Discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33987
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby flacky » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:32 pm

I've got a gun. 6 bullets, 6 points of view.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby shackattack2 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:32 pm

Gold and silver is not just of value to the "modern" economy; it's been used for over 5,000 years as currency. Like you say it is impractical in terms of purchasing everyday goods and services. But, as an investment, I would rather have 2 mil worth (current value) of gold and silver bullion sitting in a tax haven vault than as a set of numbers on an investment bankers portfolia. Over the next few years at least. As the story of the Wizard of Oz (ounce) goes...."follow the yellow brick road". We do need industry and currency. There will always be a form of economics and trade. And I'm 99.999% sure gold and silver will be in there somewhere as a basis of trade value.

The current form of economy is a rogue form which is extremely wasteful of resources and run by psychopaths. There are alternatives which won't result in the donning of loin cloths and the singing of cumbaya round campfires :wink: . Just f***ing consume less.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby shackattack2 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:42 am

"The opposite of consumption is not thrift, but generosity" - Raj Patel
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Kamikaze » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:47 am

The trouble with gold is that an ounce of gold will buy you the same amount of bread as it did 50 years ago, as everything is based on its value. Worse than that, when you come to sell it, because its gone up in "monetary value" you'll get taxed on the profit, even though you can't buy any more with it than you could when you bought it.

mind you i suppose the same is true with houses.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby flacky » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:09 pm

shackattack2 wrote:Gold and silver is not just of value to the "modern" economy; it's been used for over 5,000 years as currency. Like you say it is impractical in terms of purchasing everyday goods and services. But, as an investment, I would rather have 2 mil worth (current value) of gold and silver bullion sitting in a tax haven vault than as a set of numbers on an investment bankers portfolia. Over the next few years at least. As the story of the Wizard of Oz (ounce) goes...."follow the yellow brick road". We do need industry and currency. There will always be a form of economics and trade. And I'm 99.999% sure gold and silver will be in there somewhere as a basis of trade value.

The current form of economy is a rogue form which is extremely wasteful of resources and run by psychopaths. There are alternatives which won't result in the donning of loin cloths and the singing of cumbaya round campfires :wink: . Just f***ing consume less.



I'm having a very funny conversation on Whattsapp this morning not too far from this, about how there's basically 2 species of human on the planet, Species A and Species B. We're all species B. We do what Species A tell us, they have our money, in their banks, if we want it back, we have to give them notice. The mark of the beast, it's visa. If you conform to their system, they give you a credit card, you can buy and sell, if you don't conform, you are rejected and fucked unless you pull your socks up and play ball, get a job, buy a house, choose life etc...

It's all Sunday morning bollocks, aimed at twatting my mates head as he's a real worrier. I suggested coffee was the key to free thinking, so "they" told us it was bad for us, then science says, hang on, it's actually good for your mind! Drink more.... "THEY" didn't like that, so they make illy 6 quid a jar.

Bastards.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby flacky » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:11 pm

If "THEY" are reading, I don't believe a word of that by the way...

(I DO REALLY THOUGH!)
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby shackattack2 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:46 pm

Kamikaze wrote:The trouble with gold is that an ounce of gold will buy you the same amount of bread as it did 50 years ago, as everything is based on its value. .


Think it would be more practical to trade a dozen of your freshly laid organic eggs for a loaf of bread :wink: Save the silver and gold for some new granite worktops.

Practically all modern currencies are pegged to the American dollar as a reserve currency, and therefore are Fiat currencies. The American dollar used to be a reserve currency based on the value of gold, until they printed more dollars than gold and began fearing they would no longer meet demand (I promie to pay the bearer on demand the sum of........), as some countries just wanted the gold and not the paper derivative. Then Nixon struck a deal with the Saudis in the 70's to trade crude oil in dollars, ensuring the dollar remained the reserve currency for the world. To keep those mentally ill guys of the "Federal" reserve in the background pulling the strings basically.

The value of a fiat currency is only based on goverment decree. Once we see this fail, which is a mathmatical certainity, the value of that £20 note in your wallet will be 0. Its all about the assets and staying clear of debt. Otherwise you're a middle class slave paying ridiculous taxes and working like f**K to pay for poisoned food. Thats even if you can get a job
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby danny1 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:01 pm

Where do you keep the gold ? In a bank?
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby flacky » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:50 pm

Round your neck, on your fingers, ears... A sovereign ring is timeless Danny...
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Leedsol » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:56 pm

No answer is ever given as to why gold is valuable other than because of history. Coins and notes have a big history too. Gold has no value other than that given by the beholders. Cultures that do not seek it do not value it. The only credible answer I've been found googling is that is is pretty impossible to destroy so ancients were able to symbolise their wealth or transactions by how much they had amassed on a par with 'pay the bearer'. There is no credible theory as why gold would be turned too in any future crisis, none at all. I think I'd rather go with China and the US in terms of amassing paper and land investments than go with gold unpalatable as it is. The economies of China and the US are so interwoven that neither can let the other fail. And if all goes proper zombie then the only use gold,will have is twatting one on the head.

Some fruitcake survivalist round here was in the local paper recently for amassing 10 years worth of non perishables in his Stockport cellar. I know where i'm going should there be a zombie attack, he looks a right dweeb. Needless to say he lived alone
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby shackattack2 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:51 pm

Gold is one of the best conductors of electricity and heat out there, with the added advantage that it will never tarnish. It's also maliable (can be hammered wafer thin) and ductil (ductile properties mean it can be stretched into wiring etc). This makes it applicable to all sorts of industry. It's used extensively in medical and dentristry applications (biocompatibility properties - resistance to bacterial colonisation and therefore used in things like ear implants and teeth), it is been used in microchipping and naotechnologies, it has excellent catalytic properties. Because of its conductivity and maliable properties, I have personally used gold as a coating on biological speciemens for electron microscopy. And it has one of the highest corrosion resistences.

The problem I have with gold is it's sourcing. Very unethical, although I beleieve Perth Mint now claims to trade in 100% ethical Gold (I wonder what the standard is for that marking system). But hey, if you have a mobile phone or any other electronic device then.......

The only other metal superior in conductivity properties is silver. Personally I believe silver to be a better investment. Previous value ratio of gold to silver has been 16:1; currently it is 40:1. The amphasis on gold has kept it under the radar. (I believe "1 pound sterling" stood for 1 pound of sterling silver in the uk. A pound these days would get ya a bag of crsips and a crunchie.) And supply is diminishing; the US geological survey claims silver will be the first element to disapear off the periodic table.

Historically gold was revered probably because of its rarity. Naturally the rarer an item the more value. The jewel industry is loved by the rich and famous today, and there will always be a demand to outdo each other.

I think the future is only a crisis if you fail to react to the changing circumstances. I blame all these stupid shows and video games like Walking Dead etc for brain washing people into thinking any major change is going to result in a zombie apocalypse. Instead of thinking we should stock up on arms and brush up on fighting skills to survive, we should be concentrating on putting the infrastructure in place for community resiliance; gathering resources and building knowledge, growing own organic food (can be done in any space!). Build our knowledge base on common law practice, American constitution etc etc and taking back the power from mentally ill f**kwits. Thats the major problem with "modern", socially unadvanced society; eroded senses of community and bloody big egos because we've been bred to be overconsumers and over-competitive.

danny1 wrote:Where do you keep the gold ? In a bank?


In a vault storage facility offered by a broker who only deals in physical gold and silver trade; Gurnsey or Switerland. Otherwise get it securely delivered to your house and store it yourelf.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Leedsol » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:21 am

There is a view that the wizard of oz was an allegory warning against blindly following the banker's propagation of gold as a safe bet in the 1800s when in fact people should not be fooled by false gods such as gold and stay with or seek to build communities, hence Dorothy wanting to get back to Kansas to a proper working self-subsisting working farm. Ie; following the yellow brick wall can only lead to a life where other's pull the strings such as the illusory emerald city.

Additionally the original slippers were silver and not ruby. Was this a reference to adding silver to the gold standard others have suggested.

Doesn't matter as life will go on as it is now well beyond our death and we'll work to buy our houses only to see them used to fund reitrement and those who opt out or live abroad will always ultimately opt back by seeking state support when they need it such as care in old age.

may as well drop a tab, put dark side of the moon on and watch the wizard of oz on silent, all of which I've never done. The toddlers have the film on constant repeat at the moment wearing their dancing dresses and dancing along to it.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby shackattack2 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:04 am

Its not really a matter of opting out of govt, rather than taking back the power from the lobbyist monopoly and distrubuting the money more evenly to provide services and a steady balanced lifestyle.

Interesting you brought up the Wizard of Oz. Seems Baum was taking a pop at the whole political system and its debate on the Gold standard Vrs Free Silver movement. Like you said it was all illusionary in the end....purely based on perception with the wizard (white house) turning out to be an expert vantrilliquist. Good overview on this link:

http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/oz.html

Not sure how this applies to todays standard, with gold/silver having big applications to industry.

My conclusion is over the next few years anyhow there is potential to increase value of spare cash by making investments in precious metals; when people want to cash in their chips and realsie the supply pool won't keep up with demand, prices will soar. There is a big precious metal derivitives market (paper shares in metals with no actual metals in storage, i.e. a scam) based on decrees.

Other commodities are also very important (land, food........). Sell back the gold/silver to the mentally ill at an inflated price when demand increases, buy a farm, spread the wealth, create peace and love.....man. I guess it is fighting fire with fire. Using the system against the system. Karma economics or whatever
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Poo Stance » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:47 pm

Watched this the other day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUc8-GUC1hY

Interesting stuff about governments reaching the point where their incomes can't afford to even repay the interest on their 'loans'. Especially talking about Japan's new type of bonds.

Also, I posted this from the other thread on oil and $ re: gold. Worth a rehash I think (from 2011) http://www.jsmineset.com/2011/11/14/key ... alf-field/

As said, gold because IF/WHEN there is a reset, then, again, we need to peg the value of 'a currency' to something. And better something that isn't effected by the ravishes of time. ie. gold.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Poo Stance » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:49 pm

gold gold gold... again.
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ti ... 06263.html
This is happening more and more bar the UK as Gordon sold most if not all our gold. ooops.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Poo Stance » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:40 pm

More gold...
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/am ... eing-born/
The Triffin Dilemma – advanced by the Belgian economist Robert Triffin in the 1960s – suggests that the holder of the paramount currency faces an inherent contradiction. It must run a structural trade deficit over time to keep the system afloat, but this will undermine its own economy. The system self-destructs.
A partial Gold Standard – created by the global market, and beholden to nobody – is the best of all worlds. It offers a store of value (though no yield). It acts a balancing force. It is not dominant enough to smother the system.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Roy Stuart » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:22 pm

Leedsol wrote:
Why do people harp on about gold ffs. it has no more value than whitby black stone outside if its industrial uses and the modern economy.



What have the Romans ever done for us....?


http://youtu.be/ExWfh6sGyso
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby buttholesurfer » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:11 pm

Roy Stuart wrote:
Leedsol wrote:
Why do people harp on about gold ffs. it has no more value than whitby black stone outside if its industrial uses and the modern economy.



What have the Romans ever done for us....?


http://youtu.be/ExWfh6sGyso


Gold is a wonderful asset to stick your money in to ... Thank The Lord I used my loaf in 2007/8.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Leedsol » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:57 pm

Gold has had a staggering rise. Good investment over 5 years and I never said it wasn't. Just saying its a numbers and emotions game like anything else. I put thousands into a ftse tracker NSI product when the FTSE was 3500 and its now 6284 so I'm happy with that. Likewise I put a few k in BP when it was low 300s after the Gulf and its now 465, not quite the 80% rise that gold has seen but compounded by dividends. Again pure emotion, emotion turned against BP after the Horizon but when people realised it was a mulititude of operators likely to be held responsible then money rushed back in. Gold has at times floored in price. It is all simply emotion and numbers and I always only invest in productive companies generating products we need.

Here is Warren Buffet on Gold and I wouldn't bet against him in the long term

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/02/ ... er-letter/
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby flacky » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:11 pm

We've put more into our mortgage. We've put ourselves in a good position to be able to afford the life we want. We'll move this year, buy a house close to the sea in what we believe is the best place on this planet (realistically, language, work, climate, lifestyle etc) to give us the life we want. We'll have a very manageable mortgage which will set us up with what we believe will be "home".

I admire people with the knowledge, patience and foresight to play the markets, but I'd be a happy man knowing the house is paid for, the car is paid for and I owe no one any money...

Visa (Debt) is the mark of the devil. ;)
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Kamikaze » Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:08 pm

flacky wrote:We've put more into our mortgage. We've put ourselves in a good position to be able to afford the life we want. We'll move this year, buy a house close to the sea in what we believe is the best place on this planet (realistically, language, work, climate, lifestyle etc) to give us the life we want. We'll have a very manageable mortgage which will set us up with what we believe will be "home".

I admire people with the knowledge, patience and foresight to play the markets, but I'd be a happy man knowing the house is paid for, the car is paid for and I owe no one any money...

Visa (Debt) is the mark of the devil. ;)


Pay off the mortgage. Best investment you'll ever make.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby flacky » Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:15 pm

Sho nuff. Been reducing the term by two years every other year. Down to under 6 years. If we were staying, we'd be due to take two more off this year, which would give us 3 years. Possibly paying that off over 18 months. Got a meeting with the building society to see how much we owe so we know exactly where we are come time to sell and move this year. It's tempting to stay the course, pay the house off then move, but want to be over there asap.

We bought the golf with cash, the same with the van. Binned 2 credit cards last year, got one left, almost there.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby shackattack2 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:19 pm

"Every single currency in the world is depreciating against Gold and Silver" - Max Keiser, Daily Politics Show, 25/1/13

Good to see Max finally getting more mainstream coverage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVxyGxEc ... e=youtu.be
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby shackattack2 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:23 pm

And i heard Alex Jones was on CNN recently too. Interesting times!!!
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Leedsol » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:34 pm

Roy Stuart wrote:
Leedsol wrote:
Why do people harp on about gold ffs. it has no more value than whitby black stone outside if its industrial uses and the modern economy.



What have the Romans ever done for us....?


http://youtu.be/ExWfh6sGyso



:wink:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -bourgeois
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Kamikaze » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:55 pm

Really! a frying pan do difficult to operate?

http://www.ebuyer.com/414749-swan-sf260 ... 2c_weekend


mind you, pancakes for lunch in the office!
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Leedsol » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:15 pm

That'll be coming to a local freecycle near to you soon
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby Chris F » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:11 am

What a load of crepe.
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Re: Black friday and consumption

Postby lefty » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:14 am

i just went for a good crepe...







wouldnt go in there for about 20 minutes mind !
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