The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Any discussion on shaping, designing, repairing and riding surfcraft of any type or shape. Also a good place to ask the 'what board should I buy?' question.

Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby VillageIdiot » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:26 pm

Did you check it out Arch ? Guy told me £225 ! Sorry for freaking you out last night, my son was highly embarrassed of me. Said I was a weirdo stalker.
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Archy_is_God » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:02 am

Haha! No, twas good to chat.

That FJ you're thinking of is the triplane hull isn't it? That was in there and it looked beautiful... The one I was talking about is a full-on Widow with proper pintail on it.

You get a surf today?
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby VillageIdiot » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:36 am

Holy shit, missed that one. Surfed C-gate but it didn't live up to Friday's promise, went a bit random again. How about you?
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Archy_is_God » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:01 am

Surfed Crud on the push and lacked the energy required to make the most of it :lol:

That tri-plane FJ is really nice - are you keen? It's a minter, from what I saw.
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby VillageIdiot » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:34 pm

Inspected that tri-plane last week. Rails looked pretty bladey and bottom looked fully rolled to my un-trained eye. Still not entirely sure what a tri-plane hull is !
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby tynemouthmatt » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:18 pm

Just finished this 8' x 22" x 3" widowmaker for a friend.

single concave to spiral vee, full volan glass job

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....I want one now!
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby mister-griffster » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:05 pm

Nice one Matt - that's come out lovely - getting very turned on by the widowmaker - esp Parmenters / Lynch orignal concept with the bonzer side fins - grand job there fella!
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby mister-griffster » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:05 pm

Nice one Matt - that's come out lovely - getting very turned on by the widowmaker - esp Parmenters / Lynch orignal concept with the bonzer side fins - grand job there fella!
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby surfrat » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:28 pm

fuck me if thats 8ft tall how tall is that man?
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby picnicker74 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:29 pm

Hey, what a interesting topic!

I'd like t introduce my CeCe 7.0 (Spanish brand by Carlos Clavero, which is pretty famous in Iberia for their longboards)
Got this board as my first "real" surfboard after some years on BIC 7.9 and 7.3 MiniMalibus.
To my surprise it came with a 2+1 setup which worked fine for me so far. Based on the information I found in this thread and all over the www I will start some experimenting this year (starting with a thruster setup with en FCS adapter)

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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Pterodroma » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:25 am

VillageIdiot wrote:Inspected that tri-plane last week. Rails looked pretty bladey and bottom looked fully rolled to my un-trained eye. Still not entirely sure what a tri-plane hull is !


That was my tri-plane hull... Lovely board, kind of regret letting it go.

Thought I might resurrect this thread as I have just ordered a custom widow maker from Fluid Juice, 6'4"x19"x2.25". Now just hoping for a 3 week flat spell and then a winter of swell :lol:

Anyone thinking of ordering a widow maker would do well to give Adrian a call I think, he obviously has a good handle on the design and seemed to quite intuitively turn my thoughts on what I wanted, and what I had been enjoying in a range of other boards (from a 5'5" Royal mini sim, to the tri plane hull!), into a fleshed out idea for a surfboard.

Great value and a quick turn around too. Still find it mind boggling that people are paying another 1/3 on top of the price of a UK built custom for a mass produced US shape made in Taiwan...
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby g_baby » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:42 pm

All right, gents. Got a couple of questions to you, the widow experts.
Nah, seriously, most widowmakers seem to be above 6'6 in length but beneath 21" in width. Would a, let's say, 6'4 by 21 ½ by just beneath 3" also work well as a widowmaker?

What exactly defines a board as a widowmaker?
I'm just curious as I really like the 2+1 roundish/ thumbish/ pinish tails combined with that pulled in nose. Looks amazingly fluid to me. Would it make sense to round the nose at the bottom a bit, as seen in those hullish boards to cut the chop a bit better? Or is that already part of a widowmaker? Or are widowmakers designed for clean hollowish surf?
You can probably read by now, that g_baby has never seen a widowmaker in flesh so far… My deepest apologies for that.

Also, does a widowmaker bottom make sense to be surfed as a single as well - or are those side fins that part of the board that makes the widowmaker a widowmaker?
Could a widowmaker 2+1 be compared to a bonzer 3 fin? Or are there aspects in both types of boards I'm not aware of - which seems most probable to me.

Trying to find a second option to my 6'5" travel longboard, which would be a bit more progressive but still no toothpick, able to be properly surfed as a single fin once the surfer is ready for this, easier to handle in about 4-6ish ft waves, etc. p.p..

Not sure whether this thread hijackes the discussion, but it also might help the discussion, methinks at least.

Thanks for your help!
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby flacky » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:51 pm

My understanding is the widowmaker was created to enable single fin riders to surf bigger waves.

Does the Bonzer also fit into this little niche perhaps?
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby VillageIdiot » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:09 pm

They are a great alternative to a fish for chunkier, older ahem 'power surfers'. I'm about to order another one. A bit longer with a more pulled in tail, rolled entry and more foiled rails.
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Kirk3 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:50 am

G-Baby,
by most people's definition it's the 2+1 deal that makes it a widowmaker, but there's more to it than that for sure- definitely worth checking out Parmenter's nowtro site, and if you're thinking about a single you can't do better than his. He's been doing a sort of modern single, really clean with channels and a diamond tail- it's fantastic board by all accounts- Stephanis Gilmore has been riding one. That's Kidman's riff on Parmenter's shape here, and a couple of older widows- all pics by Kidman.
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circa_1990_widowmaker_and_dimensions_crop_photo_kidman.jpg
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Archy_is_God » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:18 am

flacky wrote:My understanding is the widowmaker was created to enable single fin riders to surf bigger waves.

Does the Bonzer also fit into this little niche perhaps?


Kinda.... It's actually the other way around:

The original Parmenter Widows were fairly narrow guns, with the idea that the fin set up made the board (thruster gun) more user friendly by having a wider sweet spot to turn from (thruster guns being very tail-orientated and, as such, often tricky to turn from a forward wide point) so DP blended the best of both worlds into a gun shape; drive and hold from a thruster coupled with better ability to change line on a big face.

Curren's and Carroll's Widows were under 18" wide, from memory.

The Widowmaker fin 'set-up' is pretty versatile across a broad range of boards, I reckon, much like bonzers.
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Archy_is_God » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:00 am

G-baby,Widowmakers (in the true gun/semi gun sense of the name) generally have a mix of panel vee and flat bottoms, with the odd one having a little whiff of concave by means of spiral vee out the back.

Bonzers have a fair bit of concave, which is all part and parcel of the design and how it works with the fin set up; cant, toe, position in conjunction with the centre fin etc. I remember quite a few boards in the 80s that had 'bonzer bottoms' because of the venturi concaves, but most had a thruster set-up as far as fins go. Pat Rawson used to do some great ones.

'Widow' fin set up involves the side fins placed with little cant or toe, with the trailing edge of the side fins in line or almost in line with the front edge of the centre fin. Because of this, they feel significantly more single fin-like than bonzers in my opinion.
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby g_baby » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:34 pm

Thanks for the quick replies, fellers. It means a lot not to be ignored :D !

So if one compares Bonzers3/5 with widowmakers it's the bottom shape that makes the difference, if I get it right?
Bonzers are for the more experienced surfers and more difficult to get them dialed in whereas the widowmaker is more user-friendly, if I get it right?

When the widowmaker developed from a gunish/ semi-gunish shape, with either sidebites or a bigger centre fin added, would a more curvy outline with 21" in width still makes sense, or wouldn't it then be called widowmaker but something else? To be honest with you, I don't give a lot about names and shames, but somehow boards are shaped the way they are shaped for a reason, I reckon.

Seen some lovely widows 2nd hand recently, but all above the 6'6 mark. Is that just for personal likings or do those widows need some longer and straighter rail to work properly?
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Archy_is_God » Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:01 pm

Well, a 'bonzer' can takes all sorts of forms - fish, longboards, guns etc

A 'Widowmaker' is a board for solid waves - gun or semi gun, with a large centre fin and two smaller sides.

Lots of boards have 2+1 setups, but are not 'Widowmakers' in the full sense - stubbies, eggs, snubs and the like, although it's easy to refer to them have a 'Widow' set up.

You do not need to be hot shit to make either fin setup work, but if you want to make the most out of a 7ft - 8ft gun, regardless of fin set up, then you are unlikely to be a beginner!

21" wide would make perfect sense on a bigger board. Bunker and Dixie's Widows are in that sort of width - big chaps = big boards. My old Widow was narrow in comparison, but still wider than what I would get if it was a thruster semigun. The straight rail line is super drivey and good for covering a lot of distance quickly with just a couple of pushes.

As an aside, I was in Newquay yesterday and went into the Quik shop to get out of the rain. On the wall was a Parmenter thruster gun, I think it was one of Tommy Carroll's old ones. It had a LOT of rocker and had a savage pintail on it, but still had a nice central/forward widepoint and balanced template. It looked like a 7'3" or 7'4", but I couldn't get behind it to look at the dims. It was fairly narrow, but obviously meant for control in serious waves.
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Kirk3 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:56 pm

Archy's about nailed the definition there- widepoint forward has always seemed like a very crucial element to me too, gives you the width where you want it for paddling and when you're up that and the rail line really does make the board very drivey. Guys like NP Jr. are definitely using the concepts behind the 'classic' widowmaker on smaller boards but the gist of it is all still there. Winter for me generally involves fairly fast closeout beachbreak, and the widows/singles have always felt the best in that- a lot of speed but there's still that extra hold on the Parmenter that feels great when there is a turn in the offing....
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby g_baby » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:04 pm

Thanks flacky, VillageIdiot, Kirk and Archy for the help.

Archy and Kirk, you steered me away from the widow concept. That "hollow fast close-out winter beach break wave" doesn't sound like what I will be surfing much the next ten years neither what I would like to surf one day. :)

Looks like I'd better look deeper into the stubby/ single section with a more relaxed rocker curve and some width combined with thickness to compensate lacking skills.

Was excellent to get some input about an interesting shape which obviously is way above personal skill level for shizzle!
Am I right in Aussies being the pioneers in pointier singles? No offense to other trailblazers, trendsetters or forerunners! Just to know where to search for the next input…
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby flacky » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:58 pm

I think the Aussies, Nat Young, McTavish etc had the fist notions to go shorter in the mid 60s, Magic Sam being widely acknowledged as the first "short board" at 9'4! Then they travel, meet fellow riders, and share ideas, suddenly we're at 6' boards.

That era when things changed is what fascinates me most. Maybe it was the hippy ideals of riding with a wave and trying to tap into the energy, Greenough has to be one of the most influential surfers of all time. 40 years on we're still all riding his fins.
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Pterodroma » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:10 am

Neal Purchase Jr, Indo.

http://vimeo.com/77564461
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby g_baby » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:27 pm

Junior knows how to tease us, ey? Or at least me, tbh. THX 4 the post, Pterodroma!
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Kirk3 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:52 pm

widow.jpg
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widow2.jpg
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7' Parmenter!
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby tynemouthmatt » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:07 am

Image

Image

Finished this one on Christmas eve.

6'6" x 19 1/2" x 2 1/2" widowmaker

pu/pe construction, 6oz bottom, 6,4 deck. Full resin tint, fabric deck inlay, wet sanded finished.
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Kirk3 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:02 pm

That looks really, really nice- excellent work mate!
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby zboy » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:37 pm

Kirk3 wrote:
widow.jpg

widow2.jpg


7' Parmenter!

what a luvly lookin board would like that in tha mid 7.6 size
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby Archy_is_God » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:00 am

tynemouthmatt wrote:Image

Image

Finished this one on Christmas eve.

6'6" x 19 1/2" x 2 1/2" widowmaker

pu/pe construction, 6oz bottom, 6,4 deck. Full resin tint, fabric deck inlay, wet sanded finished.


Nice one! Looks great, Matt.
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Re: The 2+1 and Widowmaker discussion

Postby dixie » Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:03 pm

7'6 x 22 x 3

my widow

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