Mini Simmons vs fish?

Any discussion on shaping, designing, repairing and riding surfcraft of any type or shape. Also a good place to ask the 'what board should I buy?' question.

Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby saltydog » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:44 am

Hi guys I apologise if this has been done before. I did a search but couldn't find the exact topic. So let's try it.
I really want to hear people's views on the above. I'm thinking primarily as a small wave groveller set up. Which do you think is better? Which gets the job done easier and is more fun? What are the pros and cons of either? Again I'm thinking about a twin fin set up but are quads worth a shout?
I've currently just bought a lost retro rnf only surfed it twice as a twinny. So far so good but when the waves backed off towards high tide it def struggled. Couldn't help thinking a Simmons might of been that touch better more area better paddling and wave catching. Finally how manouverable are the Simmons? Are they just down the line speed? That should hold it for now thanks Jon
saltydog
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:08 pm

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby Black » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:05 am

Firstly I don't find twin fish good for grovelling, for me they need better waves to light up.
Secondly I'm a quad fan and they are excellent in small waves depending on fin position. Turn instantly and have good projection, so very forgiving.
I have no experience of Sims (young persons board).
Stick quads in your RNF, it should improve grovelling significantly.
Or just ignore my crap talk.
Never growing old together...
User avatar
Black
 
Posts: 5466
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: Same place as God

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby saltydog » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:37 am

No. not at all black thanks for your thoughts getting the thread started its all helpful. I've never been a quad fan but unreality never committed to try for long. Also from some research into them especially in light of the lost i think i need to make sure i have small rear fins. The board def goes well as a twinny had some great speed quickly on it and holds speed well down the line. Not been able to get turns in yet as the type of waves I've been out in. Had a decent close out off the top yesterday. I think the Simmons is for everyone surely?
saltydog
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:08 pm

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby saltydog » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:37 am

No. not at all black thanks for your thoughts getting the thread started its all helpful. I've never been a quad fan but unreality never committed to try for long. Also from some research into them especially in light of the lost i think i need to make sure i have small rear fins. The board def goes well as a twinny had some great speed quickly on it and holds speed well down the line. Not been able to get turns in yet as the type of waves I've been out in. Had a decent close out off the top yesterday. I think the Simmons is for everyone surely?
saltydog
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:08 pm

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby Black » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:43 pm

twinny had some great speed quickly on it and holds speed well down the line
Yes but with a quad you can pump in the slack for extra squirt and snap a turn quickly, none of which feels civilised on a twin maybe. My Simmons remark was that most folk I've seen on them are quite young (which most are compared to me) or weigh about the same as a rabbit.
Quad fin positioning I prefer are both out wide and closer together, not like the current fashion where the trailers are back by the centre fin and parallel - that makes my head spin although never tried one like it.
Never growing old together...
User avatar
Black
 
Posts: 5466
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: Same place as God

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby Black » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:58 pm

Also (yep I've had a couple of glasses of red now) most fish are traditionally flatish rocker and yet my "groveller quad" has a lot of tail rocker which is ideal for lively pivoty quick changes you need in junk waves. I expect to be contradicted on this, if anyone else actually reads this!
Never growing old together...
User avatar
Black
 
Posts: 5466
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: Same place as God

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby JayP » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:38 pm

Why not get the best of both worlds - eg Mandala ASQ !
Is it a fish?
Is it a simmons?
Who knows but they are feckin brilliant!

I'm biased though as I cant surf a twin for shit ! :lol:
JayP
 
Posts: 1247
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 11:06 am

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby saltydog » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:49 pm

Thanks getting hold of a local shapers take on a mini Simmons style tomorrow. The guy I'm borrowing it off rips on it :shock: oh well i can but try :lol:
The fins are a quad set up like you mentioned black close together and on the rail. Jay I'll look into the mandala suggestion cheers
saltydog
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:08 pm

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby Philchapman » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:07 pm

JayP wrote:Why not get the best of both worlds - eg Mandala ASQ !
Is it a fish?
Is it a simmons?
Who knows but they are feckin brilliant!

I'm biased though as I cant surf a twin for shit ! :lol:


...and you have an ASQ for sale! :lol: No offence meant Jay, it looks lovely.
Surprised there's been no takers.... yet!
Shamanarchy in the U.K.
Philchapman
 
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 5:34 pm

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby tynemouthmatt » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:54 am

It is a common misconception that the fish is a small wave board. It was designed for hollow waves.

I would go mini simmons for small waves, have taken them out in most conditions and they become a bit of handful when its overhead...a good laugh though. Foiling them out and running a quad set up adds a more ‘performance’ slant to them.
tynemouthmatt
 
Posts: 739
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: www.polymathsurfcraft.com

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby JayP » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:56 am

Philchapman wrote:
JayP wrote:Why not get the best of both worlds - eg Mandala ASQ !
Is it a fish?
Is it a simmons?
Who knows but they are feckin brilliant!

I'm biased though as I cant surf a twin for shit ! :lol:


...and you have an ASQ for sale! :lol: No offence meant Jay, it looks lovely.
Surprised there's been no takers.... yet!


I have 3! .. I'm a bit of an addict. Its my favourite board design as it s pretty much designed for the waves I like to surf - anything up to head high and a bit. Defintitely a handful in anything big and hollow but then I'm not a fan of that so again perfect for me and for most of the waves I surf. I've been a quad fan for years though as I got hooked after buying my first speed dialler and realising just how versatile they are when you play with different fins. My main travel board is still the speed dialler with a couple of different fin sets ups. Put some speed dialler fins in and they are loose as hell and fast. Put some Taylor knoxs in and youve got a totally different board - drivey with loads more hold. (By the way I'm selling one of these too if I can ever get my act together to take some pics!) lol
JayP
 
Posts: 1247
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 11:06 am

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby mils » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:09 pm

For me the Simmons is too compromised. In a peaky full face wave with some wall they are great fun, but once the waves get more demanding I feel a fish is just a better all round board, far more range. I sold,y Simmons after realising it only went well in semi point conditions, was a pain backhand etc... I have a Pavel Speed Dialler and a new Machado fishy Midas thing. Both surf way better than the Simmons. That said, if you can afford both, the Simmons is still a blast on the right wave.
mils
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:42 pm

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby Jory » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:01 pm

I ve ridden a lot of these type of boards, both Twin and quad fishes, proper mini Simmons and I own an asq

Here's my take. The lost rnf is a shortboard fish not a true classic twin keel and probably isn't quite as much of a groveller as we often need in the uk ( the waves many Californians consider grovel worthy are what we'd think of as quite good!)

As mentioned above, a classic twin keel fish isn't really a bad wave board, they really excel in nice lined up point style waves. They have more width and less rocker than a typical shortboard which I think is why they became seen as small wave boards but that isn't what they were designed for. (They originally were designed as a kneeboarders barrel hunter!)

Quads in a fish give you a less squirley feel and more chance to break the line of a turn. They feel more positive and less skatey especially backside.

A true mini Simmons is great in marginal/ longboard size waves. They fly down the line generating loads of speed and are fun. But they are a little one dimensional, they are a bit weird backhand and a bit squirley on faster waves. This is due to the often wide tail block and thicker rails. They are hard to turn super aggressively as the fatter rail doesn't engage the water super well.

As Jay said, the asq is probably the best everyday small wave shortboard I've ridden. It's thinner and less volume than the Simmons with thinner rails but maintains the same general template. They generate the same huge speed - more than a fish but give you much more control and are much easier to place where you want in the wave. the reduction in foam especially in the rail lets you drive them through a turn like you can with a quad fish or a proper shortboard.

Have a look at Gulfstream's new space hopper model. It's something I've worked on with Jools. It takes my Asq experience as a starting point and adds in Jools classic shortboarder experience to give something special that works in small waves up to where you would want to break out a shortboard.
User avatar
Jory
 
Posts: 1682
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:42 pm

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby Jory » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:09 pm

Spacehopper
5'4 x 20.5 x 2.5
Image

https://www.gulfstreamsurfboards.co.uk/ ... ce-hopper/

My 5'4 asymmetric prototype- 5'4 x 20.75 x 2.5, slightly flatter rocker than the spacehopper

Image

I own a 5'4 x 20.5 x 2.5 mandala asq superchunk and a 5'6 x 20.5 x 2.5 keel fish and a couple of 5'2 Simmons (GS seapea and a TW bar of soap)
User avatar
Jory
 
Posts: 1682
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:42 pm

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby saltydog » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:14 am

Thanks gents for your comments. That space hopper looks fun. I've now put controller quad fins in my. lost and it has come alive its super fun almost addictive. Really enjoying it and getting it dialled in it is so fast and fun in the backhand. Weirdly takes a bit more thought on the forehand but I'm sure it'll become natural with time. Up to this point id absolutely loved my al mech average Joe (epoxy) ridden as a thruster however desperate now to try that as a quad. Its has really opened my eyes riding a quad especially with controller fins. I think i will always favour thrusters in the bigger conditions though seem easier to control and more predictable. Anyone local (north Devon) fancy doing some board test surfs? Id be keen love the idea of swapping and comparing boards in the same session cheers Jon
saltydog
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:08 pm

Re: Mini Simmons vs fish?

Postby Black » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:35 am

saltydog wrote:Thanks gents for your comments. That space hopper looks fun. I've now put controller quad fins in my. lost and it has come alive its super fun almost addictive. Really enjoying it and getting it dialled in it is so fast and fun in the backhand. Weirdly takes a bit more thought on the forehand but I'm sure it'll become natural with time. Up to this point id absolutely loved my al mech average Joe (epoxy) ridden as a thruster however desperate now to try that as a quad. Its has really opened my eyes riding a quad especially with controller fins. I think i will always favour thrusters in the bigger conditions though seem easier to control and more predictable. Anyone local (north Devon) fancy doing some board test surfs? Id be keen love the idea of swapping and comparing boards in the same session cheers Jon
Welcome to the quad club! 8)

Same for me about bigger waves regarding thrusters too. Incidentally I rotate thruster/quad (different boards) every few surfs, that way it stops you getting lazy on the quad, reminds you about input on the thruster and then when you get back on the quad it blows your mind afresh! Glad quad fins finally clicked for you.
Never growing old together...
User avatar
Black
 
Posts: 5466
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: Same place as God


Return to Surfboards - Shaping and Board Design

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests