longboard- allrounder or noserider

[buttholesurfer]

Took the Elevator to Whitsands in the arvo. Getting used to it know, they aren't joking when they state on the Bing site that it's a noserider, it locked into one wave for ages and I'm talking I had five over and I knew when it banked off the wave abit I'd got ten piggies over. Held in for what seemed ages, just felt solid! Bloody great board... Best I've ever had the pleasure in riding. I paid a little extra for it, but well worth the money... I bet the Levitator is even better, but 24" wide would be a pig to carry!

[flacky]

My log is 23.5 and it's a mare. J-U-S-T too wide

[mealy]

I saw you get a couple Butthole, I was on a peak a little further over from you. Nightmare walking back up the cliff with a log though eh!?
I've been surfing my longboard the last couple of days and have had a blast, decided to upgrade my Longboard House allrounder and now looking at a progressive noseriders.
Alot of really good info in this thread, thanks Jory/Royal.

[buttholesurfer]

I saw you get a couple Butthole, I was on a peak a little further over from you. Nightmare walking back up the cliff with a log though eh!?
I've been surfing my longboard the last couple of days and have had a blast, decided to upgrade my Longboard House allrounder and now looking at a progressive noseriders.
Alot of really good info in this thread, thanks Jory/Royal.

Just got back from Freathy, took my little quad, closing out abit , but the ones that shouldered up were sweet... if you ever see me you'll have to paddle right upto my face , as I'm blind as a bat without my specs. next time we get some swell give me a shout and I'll let you have a blast on the Bing .

[mealy]

Ahh ok, I surfed Tregantle yesterday and saw someone just like you, maybe I need my eyes checking? Tregonhawke was pretty good today.
Will give you a shout if I see you again.

[buttholesurfer]

Yep that was me New Years day, went Wembro early morning but it was shite, so did Tregantle in the arvo, then did Freathy this arvo.

[Roy Stuart]

My log is 23.5 and it's a mare. J-U-S-T too wide

.

it's not the width that's the problem.

[Roy Stuart]

hmm

It is confusing stuff

The bottom line to get your head around is the two "schools" of longboarding, traditional and progressive.

Both of those schools are recent abominations based on a design mistake.

There's also the easy school, although the industry cool franchisees will say that it doesn't exist.


.

[Roy Stuart]

royal...just checkingwhat do you mean by central or rear widepoint?

this is an extreme widepoint back outline:




If you look at modern shortboards, they basically take this outline

.

Yes, it's a shortboard shape, and works less and less well as boards get longer.

It's not really a longboard shape, but will work after a fashion at 9 feet.

[kayu]

The last 2 posts are prime candidates for the "caught inside thread"..... .......what's up Roy , fish gone off the bite ?

[flacky]

My log is 23.5 and it's a mare. J-U-S-T too wide

.

it's not the width that's the problem.

Tis the rails. And the width.

[kayu]

With traditional logs , I usually plot the w/p 4" to 6" behind. It seems to fall in nicely with increasing the diplacement towards the tail , with the w/p at 22 1/2 " to 23 1/2 ". Traditional logs are the only boards Ive found that can nose-ride well , with most of the front 1/3 of the board out of the water....modern longboards cant do this...

[Roy Stuart]

You are on to it Kayu, Pig shapes with the WP back make a lot more sense for noseriding, due to the resulting fin presentation angle .....of course the noseriding premise itself and the negative effect it has on overall surfboard performance makes no sense but that's another story.

Your previous post on this thread is a revealing attempt to use bureacratic means to prevent dissenting views on surfboard design, and extrapolated to all areas of life would result in fascism.

.

[kayu]

Fin angle of attack is a small part of the overall eqation , but important none the less...

[kayu]

The McCoy noserider

[flacky]

You are on to it Kayu, Pig shapes with the WP back make a lot more sense for noseriding, due to the resulting fin presentation angle .....of course the noseriding premise itself and the negative effect it has on overall surfboard performance makes no sense but that's another story.

Your previous post on this thread is a revealing attempt to use bureacratic means to prevent dissenting views on surfboard design, and extrapolated to all areas of life would result in fascism.

.

You're the biggest board fascist on here.

[royal]

look whatever you guys say, but i've been having the utmost fun surfing pig "influenced" boards for a long time. No, they aren't dedicated noseriders, but i don't want a one trick pony either... I like to turn, and trim, and perch, and go f-ing fast, and actually surf a little instead of just stalling for the noseride.




if i didn't love the feel of traditional logs, i may have gone to the dark arts of the progressive boards. But, I like my heavy board's momentum, and the feel of it when you get it on a rail. The widepoint back outline, among a lot of other things, lets me surf the way I want, and makes an the otherwise unwieldy popsicle sticks look boring while the pigs are lively and fun.

Ride what you like, and forget the rules...

[kayu]

Nice lookin board Royal......I like the idea of retaining a nice traditional planshape , and playin with other more performance orientated features...it can be surprising !....this board is a basic pig , with a quicker bottom and a more foiled 60/40 rail (still no tail edge)....it comfortably handles sizey waves or knee-high..

[royal]

hey kayu,

that looks fun as well!

as you can probably tell, i'm a little tired of hearing all the theory and other BS that goes on with board design, and would rather just build them to ride...

somehow i think we're on the same page there

[mister-griffster]

Hey Royal, those new PMP's are, well, PiMP! Well tricked out - love 'em to bits - How does that blunted nose with concave handle? - and That 747 fin you got on the new log for Simon, jeesh, I want one!!! must be a flying machine

To kinda bring this thread a kinda cyclical nature - here's 3 log's I currently have in the quiver: Left: Trad Loose Fit Noserider - widepoint slightly back, wide tail, natural nose with concave, tail lift and fairly pinched. Middle: Butholesurfers ol' Bing Elevator, mid point back, concave, s-deck, tail lift and kick and perfectly formed pinched rails. Right: Royal PMP, concave, slight s-deck, belly roll, wide point piggy back, tail lift and scoop and properly pinched. All 9'5...


In my humble opinion, all valid for noseriding based on simple principles of leverage and displacement - the Trad log is by far the most forgiving, very easy to surf and turn, will allow you to slide out of the pocket a little with the general volume of the nose and one of the easiest wave catchers ridden, and both the Elevator and PMP reward a more proper placement in the pocket of the wave, love to take a high line and certainly get some speed up... The PMP is the easiest longboard I've ever turned, and can out turn some shortboards I've ridden... loves a sucky little section and goes on awesome speed runs for a log... generates speed from the flat rocker up front. The elevator is smooth and precision, and locks in up front when you think it has no right to... pulls up the face of the wave and generates speed from the flex in the nose that is magical.. All super fun to surf and rewarding in their own ways - as for fins- if it sticks up it's all good - ridden with pivots, flex, d-fins - they all work.... there's no right, there's no wrong, there's just surfing and surfing needs to be fun in any form to be rewarding... whatever you ride, if you ain't having fun you ain't surfing

[Chai Wallah]

There seems to be a theme there Mr Grifster but cant quite put by finger on it

[mister-griffster]

yup Chai Wallah, I know what you mean.. must be because they're all single fins... - funny how things work out, guess I'm going through my blue period....

[flacky]

I like the blue one the best.

I have a thing for yellow boards. Even though I don't own one anymore.

[mister-griffster]

Thanks flacky - the blue one rides best Shame you don't have a yellow one anymore - thing is, I still have that yellow pintail if you want it... it's pining for a real good home..... and it's super yellow!

[Noserope]

The traditionals nose ride the best. I haven't seen a good purpose built nose rider in thirty years. First you want something heavy, five stringers (four @ 1/4 wide and the middle one one inch wide) with a 1/4 wide T-band stringer at the tail, mahogany not balsa. Take an old 60's Hobie rounded square tail about ten feet long and copy the out line and the bottom contour (they had pretty minimal rocker) then make the following corrections. Widen the nose one inch. Round the nose to match to the arc of the base of your toes (where you toes meet your feet) when your standing naturally with your feet two inches apart. In profile you want the nose to taper down to no less than an inch thick (maybe an inch and a quarter) at the tip, not the usual three quarters (adding foam to the top not the bottom [don't mess with the bottom contour{yet}]). And lastly, put a one inch upward kick in the front three inches of the board. I borrowed a board like that once back in the early seventies. I probably could have hung ten on that thing with my girlfriend on my shoulders. The thicker nose area combined with the heavy stringer counter weight allowed for nose riding even through soft spots and the kick nose could pull you right up out of a nose dive. One word of caution though, If you copy a 60's board just remember they often ruined those things by putting the fin all the way at the back rendering it an out of control dart you steered by determining which way you pointed it when you first started paddling for the wave. Put the fin six inches up from the tail so you can get your back foot behind it and use the leverage to crank it really hard into a heavy turn. It's SOOO much more fun that way.

[kayu]

........got some pics Noserope ??

[royal]

just to thrown this out there...

noseriding is as much about holding the tail down as it is about holding the nose up. In fact, I reckon more so... That's why the best noseriders have loads of tail kick, and (typically) larger fins - ie designs that create suction/stalling on the tail.

As Jory points out somewhere earlier in this thread, a board with a wide nose and narrow tail is prone to side slipping/spinning out when the wave pitches - and that's where some of the helicopter moves in progressive logging come from. If you watch older films, you can see the wider tails getting sucked back into the curl, and how far the nose of those boards are actually out of the water - no need for concave

boards like tyler's 777 which are a mile wide all over are good for all that ballerina BS foot work, but are a nightmare to actually cutback on. Hence why most of the boards of the late 60s had widepoints back, creating curve in the outline where you need it. just check out this late 60s Bilbo that came in for resto the other day for height of the time design...





EDIT this is actually a Tom Blake board, my mistake:


da cat:


nat young:


phil edwards - maybe center, but not forward anyway:


all these guys could nosreide as good as anyone, but when it came to turns, they outclassed everyone, imho

Just saying...

[flacky]

When I bought my old NIneplus Don, I had a long chat with Richard Balding about noseriders. He said the same. All in the tail.

[Chai Wallah]

Has anyone ridden a Da Cat board? or something with the same Dims?

[kayu]

Has anyone ridden a Da Cat board? or something with the same Dims?

......you need to talk to Miki Dora..