Deadly V Bigjohn

[swordie]

too much religion, and not enough spirtuality

[slopsurfer]

too much religion, and not enough spirtuality

too much religeon, and not enough relationship

[thedeadly]

the void is where everything comes from - even your god

i do agree that some eastern religion is a bit weird with demi gods and evil spirits ( we all saw monkey when we were smaller) but just like the bible you have to not take things literaly - demons , evil spirits etc sre the negative emotions that you have - eg some people have a spider demon ( are afraid of spiders ) if you don't destry your own personal demons they will harm you and you will also pass them on top your children - (i'm afraid of spiders because my mum is scared of spiders)

i think that christians and all other diety worshiping religions have got it all back to front - people make gods - not god makes people - if there's no people to worship a god he will cease to exist - lay dormant until hes re discovered - i think if you took jesus away from the equation and put the word love in there instead you would have the same same thing - let (jesus) love into your heart etc

as for the "church" since the early dark ages it has been about power and control over the lives of the ordinary people - as for not forcing christianity on people perhaps someone could explain why heretics were killed and most of the pagan festivals have been corrupted and turned into christian ones - eg. christmas - the winter solstice was one of the most inportant events in this country, so inportant in fact stonehenge was built to mark it ( not summer solstice as most people think) this wasn't a religious thing it was just a way of knowing when days would get lighter and crops needed to be prepared - dec21st - rumours have it that jesus was born in oct or sept so why is christmas in december just within a couple od days of winter solstice - when is all siants day - is it nr halloween ??

for me the idea of god works but not in the form of the "church"

i did like the thing the bbc did a few years back when they treated jesus as a christian fundamentalist fighting the oppression of the romans and even connected rome burning (whilst nero fiddled) with terrorist acts brought about by a hard core of christian rebels

thats probably more like the truth - i wonder how arrafat will be remembered in 2000 years time - lol

[thedeadly]

Maybe not "disorganised" what I was getting at was the basic human desire for a spiritual dimention to our lives which doen't have to be expressed through a religion. It can be a simple as feeling connected with it all when out on the water.

yesssssss

The world is my church - everyday is sunday !

[NorthSeaMonster]

- if there's no people to worship a god he will cease to exist - lay dormant until hes re discovered

That's Terry Prachett... You read Terry Prachett? I read Terry Prachett... Should I be embarrased by that?

Obviously I disagree Deadly. I think it is about revelation. If God didn't reveal himself to us we couldn't know him. Of course, that's a faith statement.

Certainly "The Church" has acted in cruel and indefensible ways at various points. People are involved, so all the normal weaknesses apply. Going to Church, or even being involved in leadership doesn't automatically mean your heart has been (and is being) changed. That has been true from the very beginning. I don't think that fact invalidates the belief.

What I absolutely reject is any kind of romanticising of paganism...

[slopsurfer]

people make gods - not god makes people

Which brings me back to one of my original points, to be the centre of your reality must be a huge burden, to know your weaknesses, failures and be your only hope of saving yourself from them must lead you to a lack of hope for yourself and mankind?

[swordie]

What I absolutely reject is any kind of romanticising of paganism...

why not? Animism is just as valid as Christianity.

In fact did'nt early Christian missionaries go round appropiating customs and dates for their own ends, something which I believe still happens in various developing countries ....

form my own limited and dark perspective, I applaud the Christianity summed up in the term 'do unto others as you would have others do unto you' but have to totally reject the judeo/christian ethic for it's attitude to domination, work, etc that has led to the planet being in such a parlous state.

That same ethic has now given us a sharply polarised world of the 'God fearing Christians' [read Bush] on the one side and an increasingly fundamentalist Islamic world on the other.

It's interesting to note that bothe religions preach tolerance and peace, but are more than ready to beat seven shades of $%^&^ out of one another and anyone who does'nt agree with them.

Roll on the new Crusades. Religion - the curse of mankind

[frameline]

Which brings me back to one of my original points, to be the centre of your reality must be a huge burden, to know your weaknesses, failures and be your only hope of saving yourself from them must lead you to a lack of hope for yourself and mankind?

Or perhaps it leads you to understand that we are indeed each as individuals the only hope for saving ourselves, our weaknesses and failures are ours to solve. How can that be a negative.

[frameline]

Religion - the curse of mankind

Sad but true...

[u4d18]

Deadly,
I take the bible very literally =)

Also, I'm definately not religous, I have faith but I'm not religous. I heard a quote that said : -

'Religion is mans attempt to make himself right with God'. I know I can never make myself right with God so I'm not religous. How many times did Jesus say 'Religion'? I think you'll find it's none...

As to 'Organised Religion' this in my opinion is where the Christian church sells itself to the world as any other organisation, it assumes the values of the social majority. It goes away from the fundamental teachings of the bible and implements its own systems and procedures. Ultimately it's dead and I can't stand it.

As for your story about Jesus, all I can tell you is my own experience that once I was lost and now I'm found. When I came to know Jesus in my heart I know everything He said is for real. The bible says that 'Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see'. It also says that Faith is a gift of God. The difference between you and I is faith, I have total faith in Jesus and although I can true to persuade I can never ever convince anyone that it's really true unless their heart is touched by God, because faith is a gift from God. Therefore, although I can tell you my experience unless you search for yourself you cannot find. I searched and I found, what I have means everything to me.

I think as a surfer we experience the height of what the earth can offer in terms of entertainment and fun, there is nothing like riding a wave or getting into a barrel, the stoke is amazing, the whole feeling takes my breath away. But it's temporary, I keep having to come back for more and I need it to get better to keep the buzz. When I first started I got a buzz from standing, now I get a buzz from pulling a good move. I'm satisfied for a moment and then it's gone. Knowing Jesus in my heart is like beyond anything that this earth can offer, surf is fun and having faith helps me enjoy it more, but in those precious moments where I've felt especially close to God I can say that nothing compares to that, it's beyond words, beyond feelings, beyond anything that I could find in this world, because I know that God exists for real and that He has made me for His purpose.

Oh yeah, most Christian festivals coincide with the pagan festivals because the Catholic Church thought they could subvert people by doing this. That is why we have so much pagan symbolism surrounding Christmas, Easter etc.... Again, that's religion for you!! They think they can do it through man's methods instead of trusting in God...

[slopsurfer]

Or perhaps it leads you to understand that we are indeed each as individuals the only hope for saving ourselves, our weaknesses and failures are ours to solve. How can that be a negative.

I'll answer by quoting an earlier post by U4

I read about these meditiations where people try to transend the mind in order to reach a 'higher plane', i.e. they are trying through their own control to better themselves in a certain way to reach some state that will provide inner peace. But my question is: does it satisfy them? Do they have to meditiate again the next day to reach that state? Once they reach the state is there anywhere else to go? What must they do to reach a permanent state of peace? Can they? As a Christian there is nothing I can do to better myself other than believe in and trust and love God with all my heart. I rely on God to do the work in me and I have a peace in my heart that is eternal because I now believe that God has given me a new spirit that is eternal. What did I do to get this? Believe in Jesus and everything He said and did. From the moment I put my trust and life in His hands I have had inner peace.

[thedeadly]

to be the centre of your reality must be a huge burden

i suppose it must for anyone who feels like that

to be the center of something means that you are attached to the center and have limits on your circunference -

when the mind is tethered to a centre,naturally it is not free. it can move only within the limits of that ceter. If one is isolated, he is dead; he is paralized within the fortress of his own ideas - bruce lee

when there is no center and no crcumference, then there is truth

[thedeadly]

But my question is: does it satisfy them? Do they have to meditiate again the next day to reach that state? Once they reach the state is there anywhere else to go?

Go and read a book about Zen then you will see what a foolish comment that is !

you portray someone who has found enlightenment as a junkie

the most obvious difference between east and west is this in the west it is "seek and you shall find - as opposed to the east where it is "don't seek and you shall find"

how many times have you had something you are trying to remember on the tip of your tounge but can't just remember then later when you are doing something else and have forgotten about it altogether it pops up and you remember - how many times have you lost your keys or something and you turn the hous upside down to find them and can't then when you have given up and are doing something else you find them !

but in those precious moments where I've felt especially close to God I can say that nothing compares to that

i get the same feelings - only i call it "being at one with the universe"