Surfing and the Gym?

[steveouk]

Hi guys. Happy new 2013!!
Just before Christmas I decided that it was time to take my surfing to the next level and this would include increasing my surfing fitness. Living in South Wales, UK, unfortunately I have to endure weeks on end of small onshore slop so I joined the gym.
I'm focusing my exercises on surfing fitness, so my upper body including shoulders, my core and I finish it all off with a 5Km interval run on the treadmill.
I feel great for doing it and I've been going every other day for the past 2 weeks. I went on Friday last and then yesterday noticed the surf was pretty decent so popped in.
Problem was. the moment I got in my arms and body turned to jelly. I had very little energy and I found myself to be really out of breath. It was quite a small day but I couldn't even paddle out back. I stayed in for about 30 mins not wanting to give up but it was no use. I turned around and caught a wave in.
I was confused as I thought the gym would increase my surfing fitness but it seems that instead it turns my arms into mush to cause me not to be able to surf. Should I time my gym sessions 2 days before a surf??
Am I doing something wrong here because I felt fitter in the water when I was sitting at my computer for 9 hours a day.

[roberdy]

could be too much too quick mate, or you are working the wrong muscles in the gym. I don't even bother with weights, try to do a combat class once a week, do a pilates class once a week, ride my bike and swim, general all round fitness is what is required. There's plenty of guys on here who will share ALL their experience with kettle balls, whey protein regimes and other diet/exercise/bs approaches to staying in shape for surfing but you have to find what works for you. By all means have a search for relevant threads, there are a few out there on this forum!

[dermo909]

I found the best thing for my surf fitness is running. A few press-ups here and there as well is all I'm able for. If I do any weights or any other workouts then I'm screwed for a couple of days and my arms end up like rubber bands.

I dont know much about fitness and weights but it sounds like your arms/shoulders are tired from lifting too heavy. Maybe more reps with lower weight would be better?

On an another note, you could also be coming down with a cold or flu. I always notice I get out of breath easier a few days before symptoms hit.

[steveouk]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Don't think I'm coming down with anything. I feel great.

I'm not trying to build muscle mass and I'm fairly skinny and scrawny as it is but yeah, maybe too much too soon is exactly it. I did quite a bit of upper body stuff in the last week and haven't rested more than 1 day apart.
Gonna keep up the cardio stuff on the runner and I find that the rowing machine is also good. Might calm it down a bit on the weight machines and do much lower weights!

[ATTMFKH]

go surfing in the weak onshore slop

2 things for paddle fitness I've used are interval training in the pool e.g. 8 x 50m slow 50m fast(alternate), breather , 8 x 50m med , 4 x 50m fast, 4 x 50m lazy boy wind down....

the other thing I did , haven't done for years , was lie on a big gym ball, get a couple of dumbells, you choose weight, lay down facing the floor on the ball , arch your back right up surfee stylee, and paddle your dumbells - can be a killer, picture yourself paddling out at some break somewhere to focus on something else other than the pain.

maybe you have a virus coming on or your period

have you tried Whey Protein for recovery

[defever]

Sounds like over-training and been focusing too much on pumping iron...but good on you for taking action to improve your fitness.

Surfing requires more aerobic capacity than anaerobic reserve. It's like rugby; you only need short bouts of explosive energy (when taking off) and rest is just general endurance fitness (paddling through white water) to keep you going for 2-3hr surf session. Hence interval training is ideal for surfing, I think.

Less weight training (but need it to "condition" your strength and improve certain weak muscle groups), ALOT more cardiovascular training (swimming and running). If your gym has a swimming pool, brilliant. If not treadmill, cross trainer, or exercise classes like body-combat or circuit training.

Google fitness training for surfing / swimming / triathlon. You might get some ideas. Cheeky chat with personal trainer (without committing to their extortionate training rate) at the gym is also a good source.

Good luck!

[steveouk]

Thanks guys! Loving all these suggestions!

Unfortunately no pool at my gym! (Joined EasyGYM for £12.99 a month!... as in EASYJET! Horrible orange but cheap and has every bit of equipment there I could want).

Went in again today and felt alot better. Still paddling is my biggest issue but I started another thread a while back about a board upgrade. I'm surfing a board not quite buoyant enough for me so paddling out back, especially after I've just caught a wave, is a nightmare!
I will stop 'pumping iron' as I don't want to beef up and focus more on other things. I have noticed those exercise balls always seem to crop up on surfing fitness websites! I tried one at the gym and they really do work the core!

Just paddling is my issue now! New board + more gym = a much more fun surf! I don't think the cold helps either! Surfing in a 4/3 with a thermal layer underneath doesn't quite cut it!

[Vince Noir]

going running is pretty pointless in my opinion..it will help with CV fitness, but wont help with the explosive power you need.

if you want to up your CV fitness then interval training is likely to be the best option.nothing hammers your CV system more than massive sprints followed by a rest period.


as far as the weights go, sounds like DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness)..youll get this for a few sessions if youve never lifted weights before. Also, if your not eating enough, its not going to help with recovery. if you are scrawny the chances are that you probably arent eating enough. you might say you are, but i bet you are not ( thats the reason your scrawny). just being frank with you, .i used to be scrawny and thought i was eating enough quality food....now i do eat enough, i am a much better build


ditch the gym ball, they are a typical mens health exercise..much better stuff for your core..squats, deads, bench, press, chins, dips...thats all you ever really need to do. kettle bell work is also great


if you want something specifically for surfing, theres no subsitute for surfing more I'm afraid. next best thing in my opinion would be swimming (low impact CV, good to be good at swimming if you are a surfer!) and martial arts ( endurance interrupted by intense bouts of explosive power...go to a muay thai training session, it will ruin you)...

[skimmer2]

Here's my experience:

Swimming never really worked for me - a bit but not that much.
Weight training - not really
Cycling - yup - good for cardio
Kettle bells - yup - strength and cardio (still use them a bit)

I don't run - wish I could - but feet are flat and probably made worse from martial arts I reckon - kills my shins.

Best bit was deffo just surfing more but when you are old like me (and ATT ) and have a youngster and surf is crap things tend to go pear shaped.

My plan (if it ever happens) is to keep up the turbo trainer a couple of times a week with a bit of kettlebells and surf or SUP when poss. If flat the SUP gives a decent workout and you can lie on it and paddle too - gets the arms/shoulders.

[ATTMFKH]

^^ watch it old yin

swimming with a float between your legs is the nearest exercise to surfing ( paddling) I can find - works for me.

[dermo909]

Regarding running, at the end of my marathon training last June I could paddle relentlessly without getting out of breath.

[skimmer2]

^^ watch it old yin

swimming with a float between your legs is the nearest exercise to surfing ( paddling) I can find - works for me.

Tried that and reckon you are right in that it gives your shoulders a better workout but just couldn't get the balance right so got peeved off with that. I started using webbed swim gloves instead and that actually worked really well - go bloody fast too - and your arms ache.

[defever]

if you want something specifically for surfing, theres no subsitute for surfing more I'm afraid

ABSOLUTELY. Sometimes we can't go surfing when we wish though. Flat days, night, broken equipments, are prime examples. And that's when your EasyGym can come in handy to maintain / continue to enhance your fitness.

Regarding running, at the end of my marathon training last June I could paddle relentlessly without getting out of breath.

BRILLIANT. Running can sometimes be pointless or indeed a boring chore. But it uses the biggest muscle groups we have (quads and hams) so it'll challenge your heart and lungs (cardiovascular capacity). If you do an interval training at the right intensity, you won't end up with pair of thighs like Sir Chris Hoy but your general heart function and breathing will become more efficient. Hence becoming less breathless. It's a perfect warm up, mix it up with rowing, cycling and cross trainer so that you don't get bored.

Then strength & conditioning. Swiss ball is good for balance and movement control, but it's really a thin slice of the whole pie. I acknowledge that there are many conditioning regimens that one can follow, but following the principles of "push / pull" movements with "high reps, low weight" might get you started. Surfing involves bit of both (push - taking off in a push-up position, pull - paddling in a pull-up manner). And we do these movements in repetitive (well not so much on taking off, but definitely paddling) manner so you want to focus on high repetition with small weights rather than trying to beat screaming hulk with 1000kg bar next to you.

The common exercises you see people do in the gym such as squats, dead lifts, bench press, seated rows etc. are all good to get into the habit of using gym machines and create your routine exercises. They follow "push-pull" concept too (squats vs dead lifts, bench press vs rows).

As you get familiar with common exercises then you want to link those iron pumping action with some surfing moves; like push-ups for taking off, lunges with floor touch for grabbing your rails, squats for powerful bottom turns (standing squad) and cutbacks (seated reverse squats), etc. And then you can progress these same exercises on wobble board / cushion to simulate uneven surface feeling when riding a wave.

Just came back from "new year get together work do" and I think I had too much champaign... sorry for the essay, but I hope this helps with achieving your goals.

[insideout]

Not sure if its been mentioned already but a big part of being on top of your game whilst in the water is eating the correct foods before/after exercising and also being properly hydrated can have a big impact on your performance.

[steveouk]

On treadmills I do Interval training. This is great! I do 2 mins high intensity and 2 minutes walking. It's the 1:1 programme. There is a 4:1 which is 4 mins intense and 1 min rest!!

I just think from not really going to a gym to a sudden week or 2 of every other day, ALL muscle groups was a bit over the top for me. Going to carry on with my cardio training on the treadmill because regardless of whether it's surfing specific or not, I feel great from it and it will improve my cardio and breathing.

Going to lower all the weights down to incorporate more reps. Everything else should be all good. I did just experience muscles that hadn't properly recovered.

I will look into kettle bell exercises as I haven't played around with them yet. I do try and surf whenever I can but with the beach being an hours drive from me, the petrol adds up and I'm self employed so my time is rather valuable some weeks. I still try for three sessions a week if it's possible, more if the surf is really good.
I think that the gym in the meantime is a great option for me and can only improve my surfing fitness.

[flippflopps]

i live inland so concentrate a lot on the gym and fitness so that I'm ready when there is swell. So thought I'd share what I've learned. i reckon you might have overdone it in the first 2 weeks of your training... as i'm hitting the gym 3times a week I need to vary things up so that I don't get too bored.

I do 6 different exercises every visit. 7 if I'm feeling good. normally just standard 3 sets of 8/10 and concentrate on triceps, shoulders and arms. (bench press, shoulder press,dips, pullups, curls - but also throw in situps on swiss ball, back bends up from floor (surf position). A good thing to mix it up is one session to reduce the weight amount, and increase the reps massively. 3 sets of 20 or 30 to help push your stamina along too and concentrate on building lean muscle rather than bulk.

I als think it's important to concentrate on building back muscles, in order to compensate the extra strength you build at the front - so what the guy earlier said about paddling weights on top of a swiss ball is great, I have a variation on it, straight lifts from the same position, but I will be trying his. other ones for the back are using the pulleys etc.

then finally core - squat thrusts with your legs in those ring things they always have now are great and a perfect copy of "popping up" good for your shoulders and core. and go do a core class or two a week if they have one. otherwise get into planking for 5 mins in all the variations.

then.... apart from all this you need something a bit more endurance... I had to give upo running finally due to the impact and problems it caused with knees/back but I've got back into mountain biking after a 3 year absence and it's perfect. If you go swimming, the best stroke is breaststroke for your surfing muscles.

the other great sport is boxing - absolutely the perfect muscle groups to build for surfing, with endurance built in.

oh yeah and yogo is not just about flexibility (which is great to improve your surfing) but also core strength and overall strength too - don't write it off, especially if you're recovering from an injury...

[Vince Noir]

I do 6 different exercises every visit. 7 if I'm feeling good. normally just standard 3 sets of 8/10 and concentrate on triceps, shoulders and arms. (bench press, shoulder press,dips, pullups, curls - but also throw in situps on swiss ball, back bends up from floor (surf position).

why have you got absolutely no compound lifts if you are training for strength ? swissball sit ups are just nonsense.dragon flags, leg raises, squats, deadlifts..all hammer your core to no end

A good thing to mix it up is one session to reduce the weight amount, and increase the reps massively. 3 sets of 20 or 30 to help push your stamina along too and concentrate on building lean muscle rather than bulk.

why ? low weight high reps only gets you good at doing low weight high reps. surfing is alot of waiting, followed by intense bouts of physical activity...if you want better stamina, eat properly, and do interval training .....building lean muscle is all about diet...bulk is just lean muscle + fat (because of a bad diet). if you dont eat properly in the first place it doesnt matter what you do, any muscle gains would be small

I als think it's important to concentrate on building back muscles, in order to compensate the extra strength you build at the front - so what the guy earlier said about paddling weights on top of a swiss ball is great, I have a variation on it, straight lifts from the same position, but I will be trying his. other ones for the back are using the pulleys etc.

but you dont have any back exercises mentioned in your post

then finally core - squat thrusts with your legs in those ring things they always have now are great and a perfect copy of "popping up" good for your shoulders and core. and go do a core class or two a week if they have one. otherwise get into planking for 5 mins in all the variations.

lol wut ?

then.... apart from all this you need something a bit more endurance... I had to give upo running finally due to the impact and problems it caused with knees/back but I've got back into mountain biking after a 3 year absence and it's perfect. If you go swimming, the best stroke is breaststroke for your surfing musclesthe other great sport is boxing - absolutely the perfect muscle groups to build for surfing, with endurance built in..oh yeah and yoga is not just about flexibility (which is great to improve your surfing) but also core strength and overall strength too - don't write it off, especially if you're recovering from an injury...

Agree with this bit. running is evil in my opinion, much better to cycle/swim/sprint/row/box






To the guy who orginally asked the question, anything you do would be better than nothing, but nothing is a subsitute to actually surfing...lifting weights isnt going to make you bulk up if you dont do it properly ( and even if it did i dont see how its a problem?)....just make sure you are eating properly, having a rest day after each gym session if you can, and not doing stupid exercises that you see in mens health magazine...take a knife to the swiss ball, and start picking up heavy things if you want to train your core

[Vince Noir]

Then strength & conditioning. Swiss ball is good for balance and movement control, but it's really a thin slice of the whole pie. I acknowledge that there are many conditioning regimens that one can follow, but following the principles of "push / pull" movements with "high reps, low weight" might get you started. Surfing involves bit of both (push - taking off in a push-up position, pull - paddling in a pull-up manner). And we do these movements in repetitive (well not so much on taking off, but definitely paddling) manner so you want to focus on high repetition with small weights rather than trying to beat screaming hulk with 1000kg bar next to you.

Actually, studies have shown that doing exercises on a swiss ball does not improve an atheletes balance/coordination, when the same thing is done off the swiss ball...the carry over just isnt there...

again, what is this fasination with high reps low weights...it does nothing. if your pop up is weak, then press ups ( especially clapping hand press ups), and dips, are going to be alot better than doing a million tricep kickbacks with 5 kg

As you get familiar with common exercises then you want to link those iron pumping action with some surfing moves; like push-ups for taking off, lunges with floor touch for grabbing your rails, squats for powerful bottom turns (standing squad) and cutbacks (seated reverse squats), etc. And then you can progress these same exercises on wobble board / cushion to simulate uneven surface feeling when riding a wave.

what the hell is a seated reverse squat ? there is nothing better for your legs or core than a proper front or back squat. again, the balance control doesnt carry over . doing something on a ball is just nothing like riding a wave

[defever]

Hello Vince,

Thought you'd bite on my post. Thanks for your criticism, I appreciate your views. I’m not being sarcastic tough, I'm simply interested in "surf fitness" too, and perhaps you don't mind sharing bit more of your wisdom in this area?

May I ask which studies you're referring to? It would be interesting to see what sort of participants (ordinary people like us or professional athletes already in their prime condition?) took part in the study and how they measured "balance /coordination". As you say, balance training might just be "men's health" propaganda after all.

I don't know what seated reverse squat is either! I think I meant leg press on a machine... ha. I blame my inability to tolerate alcoholic beverages...

[lostboy]

Actually, studies have shown that doing exercises on a swiss ball does not improve an atheletes balance/coordination

Really? Links please, Vincey!

again, what is this fasination with high reps low weights...it does nothing.

Really? No improvement in anaerobic endurance? No increased tolerance to Lactic Acidosis?

[lostboy]

It would be interesting to see what sort of participants (ordinary people like us or professional athletes already in their prime condition?)

Spot on, defever. The study(ies) that Vince may be alluding to concluded that for most people, a Swiss Ball didn't offer any benefits above other core exercises because they were not doing the exercises correctly. The solution, of course, is to learn to do the exercises correctly.

[Leedsol]

My surfing has reduced to once every 7-10 days since wife went back to work after a couple of years on maternity leave (was a couple of times a week before then) though I go to Portugal every three months or so for a quick blast over a long weekend or longer.

I've tried it all over the years, gym, footie, swimming, indoor climbing and running and all good but for me all boring as fuck at the end of the day.

I got pulled in by the cycling hype over summer with Wiggins and the Brownlees and co (and also the Hairy Bikers cycling in the lakes on their bikes as we used to go all over the lakes on our cycles as kids) and have been loving it since I got my first bike in twenty years. i work nights so can go daily and have even over winter and have a few routes depending on whether I want a gruelling or just quick 40min work out. I'm loving it. I'm on the edge of the Staffordshire moors so its all gradient and testing, the 'mow cop killer mile' is part of my routes and quite a famous challenge and more than a mile.

i don't find any loss of surf fitness doing this and have long sessions even after a week or so out. i had 2x3 hour sessions the other week with just a break when driving between the breaks and a mile walk to the break,and eating. I try not to do too long a session mind (in terms of more than 3 hours) as I find it does me in but the waves were too good this day and the sun was out (no gloves in bloody December on the LLeyn!!) I've lost about 10llbs though no muscle loss or build up (which I don't want).

I find I'm getting bloody bike envy now...

[Vince Noir]

The performance of resistance exercises on unstable equipment has increased in popularity, despite the lack of research supporting their effectiveness. Resistance exercise performed on unstable equipment may not be effective in developing the type of balance, proprioception, and core stability required for successful sports performance. Free weight exercises performed while standing on a stable surface have been proven most effective for enhancing sports related skills.

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Abstra ... es.15.aspx

The decreased balance associated with resistance training on an unstable surface may force limb musculature to play a greater role in joint stability. The diminished force output suggests that the overload stresses required for strength training necessitate the inclusion of resistance training on stable surfaces.

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstr ... ce.43.aspx




WRT endurance, i just dont think doing loads and loads of skull crushers, or tricep extensions, or whatever new triceps exercise is doing the rounds, is going to be anywhere near simulating paddling, which is what most people struggle with first. the nearest thing i can think of would be going all out on the punch bag for a minute or something like that

...its rare in the uk to be consistently getting waves where you are riding enough to be fatigued in your legs for example. ( when you are an average surfer, surfing average waves)


(post unfinished, got to get back to work)

[lostboy]

The links are just to the abstracts - where's the full papers?

i just dont think doing loads and loads of skull crushers, or tricep extensions, or whatever new triceps exercise is doing the rounds, is going to be anywhere near simulating paddling

Absolutely agree. However, that was not your initial assertion.

[flippflopps]

blimey - was just saying what's worked for me, and it realy has worked for me. My wve count has gone up, and given I don't live at the coast I can stand the downtime better when I next manage to be in the water.

As I mentioned, one of the key reasons why I swap to low weight high reps is purely to change things. If you're going to the gym 3 times/week AND surfing AND biking and are fairly active anyway, you need to change things around to keep sane. I'm not a body builder so the plan is to build all kinds of different strengths up, not just the viisble ones in my arms/back etc.

i find high reps, does increase stamina, without necessarily building bulk. I dont think it does "nothing".

However, surfing for me, possibly as I don't get to surf points/reefs week in week out, is not really a lot of waiting followed by brief periods of high exertion. Instead, it really is a lot of paddling and duck diving to get into position, jockey for position for take off, then a quick paddle to actually take off, then a brief period of standing up, then repeat. Every now and then I get to wait around a bit and that's a nice rest, but the length of my surf isn't determined by how long I can wait for - it's determined by how much strength I have to paddle back out again and get in position.

[steveouk]

I guess it's all whatever works for us individually. I didn't think this would turn into a fitness debate. It's great to hear what other surfers are doing in their off-surfing time to keep fit. I think I can take a little from what most of you have said and try and incorporate some of these ideas into my daily life. I do surf as much as possible. Infact back down to Cornwall today to spend time with my dad and take advantage of those easterly winds that are supposed to be here tomorrow! Lets hope I don't get rubber arms tomorrow!!!

[swiggy]

Doing big weights to get better at surfing makes no sense. If you want to get big and build muscle or whatever then sure, but it ain't going to help your surfing. When I was 16-17 I got big into the gym and doing weights, it took me about a year to work out that although I was getting significantly stronger, I was getting tired a lot quicker. Haven't set foot in a gym since, big heavy arms are the last thing you want. All I do these days is surf and cycle to the office, but I probably spend upwards of 10 hours or so a week surfing and I never sit still, which is probably enough exersize, I can surf all day long really and do it again the next day. I'm really skinny, and have no desire to put on weight and slow myself down.

Paddling is mainly endurance, unless you are really weak most people don't really need any more absolute strength to paddle, its being able to sustain it for most of a day.

One thing that honestly has made me feel better is pretty much going vegetarian and completely cutting out all processed foods, thanks to my girlfriend doing all the cooking. I eat meat maybe twice a month. Even my own parents commented on how much healthier I looked when they came to visit.. You have to think about what you are eating to make sure you have sufficient protein etc. but it isn't hard. If I eat a big meaty meal now I can just feel it sat in my stomach undigested feeling gross. I eat fish maybe once or twice a week or so too.

The only thing I think I need to do is something to balance it out, I'm probably building up muscle imbalances from purely surfing, I don't want to blow rotator cuffs etc. as I get older, and I've tweaked knees and ankles a few times from landing airs, I think I might try and get into yoga. The problem is I can't really be arsed haha.

[defever]

Vince, thank you for the links, they are indeed interesting articles! But I'm not so sure if you read beyond their abstracts, because err... well, you might find the articles bit of a surprise...!

I'm with swiggy. And I think steveouk wants to be where swiggy is, no? EasyGym is just another mean to generally keep fit (and add bit of controversial "surf-specific exercises") so next time you're in water you can enjoy the session without becoming tired/breathless prematurely...? I'm guilty of it and I confess that it's easy to get lost in the habit of showing off fancy exercises and what's right and wrong training methods to get that ultimate superhuman body.

Many apologies if I stimulated the debate, but I'm genuinely interested in people's views on this and I believe that there are always two sides to a story... sorry again.

[swiggy]

This is the internet, you don't apologise for starting an argument

[skimmer2]

Everyone is different and you just need to find something that you can bear or enjoy and keeps you interested in being fit.

It has taken me years to get the body and fitness that I have